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Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

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Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#61

Post by RajT88 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #57
RajT88 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is negativity. > Wherever the government gets involved corruption ensues. It is a rule, not an exception. This is true. If your requirement is to never implement some system which can be abused (even a little bit), you are against government in any form. If you're not advocating for no government and you're OK with a little bit of abuse, then it's an argument over scale. There will always be some abuse, but the ke…

There is a widespread false idea that there exist some kind of system in governance, but this has never existed. It is just humans in an eternal power struggle. Whenever the "system" or rules don't benefit the rulers, they are not valid. It's a system to the extent that it exists inside the heads of the people who believe in that system. And most of people have a warped idea of what that system even nominally is, bec…

I do not know what to tell you. The history of my country is filled with examples of the government successfully addressing problems too big (or too inconvenient) for the private industry to address. To the extent the private industry is enabled by the government to pillage, it is lack of regulation or lack of enforcement. The solution to that is more governance, not less. The private industry will not decide to do what is best for consumers, or the environment, or healthy competition. They will maximize profit at all costs every time.

Some examples of problems too big in my country for private industry: Water Pollution. By every conceivable metric the situation is drastically improved since the 1970's when the Clean Water Act was passed. Lake Erie no longer catches fire! Chicago built a 30+ mile giant underground tunnel to route the city's sewage to a holding quarry for treatment at immense effort and expense. No private company has the resources to do something like that - just ask Elon about Hyperloop!

Consumers in my country are paying more for most things because antitrust enforcement fell out of vogue because the system was infiltrated by vested interests. The solution to that problem is more governance and not less; the private industry will not refuse to concentrate power and will not decide to split up monopolies or stop colluding via oligopolies.

I have no doubt the problems you are describing in your country are real. What I am not hearing is solutions. Just complaints.

Again - there are many examples of governance being a force for good. In fact, the successes of government are more defined by a lack of tragedies. Like a good DBA or SRE team, and similarly underappreciated.

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#62

Post by crazygringo »

Swizec wrote: post #17
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #13

Starting a business is really challenging, as anyone who has tried it knows. Trying to make the finances work in something ephemeral is likely even more challenging. In any case, most businesses fail so ephemeral business is sort of the default unless you succeed. There are individual businessmen who ride different business waves (like getting into frozen yogurt a little over a decade ago). But the skill those people…

> There's also a whole world of business outside of tech that most of HN is not familiar with I once read that the most reliably money-making business in America is a car wash. Comes with a built-in monopoly because people will only drive so far to wash their car and reliably generates low 7 figures in sales. Plenty of repeat customers and low churn if you meet a quality bar. But who wants a 70% chance at being a mil…

A single car wash isn't making most people a millionaire.

After a low 7 figures in sales, you've got to subtract costs and wages, and the money left over will hopefully cover your family's living expenses. Being able to save up a million is going to be tough. And starting a car wash from scratch probably isn't going to wind up being worth close to a million either, in most locations, in terms of being able to sell the business.

If you run a network of 10 car washes then sure, but good luck with that. The market is already pretty saturated so building up a profitable network is going to be tough.

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#64

Post by Swizec »

crazygringo wrote: post #62
Swizec wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's also a whole world of business outside of tech that most of HN is not familiar with I once read that the most reliably money-making business in America is a car wash. Comes with a built-in monopoly because people will only drive so far to wash their car and reliably generates low 7 figures in sales. Plenty of repeat customers and low churn if you meet a quality bar. But who wants a 70% chance at being a mil…

A single car wash isn't making most people a millionaire. After a low 7 figures in sales, you've got to subtract costs and wages, and the money left over will hopefully cover your family's living expenses. Being able to save up a million is going to be tough. And starting a car wash from scratch probably isn't going to wind up being worth close to a million either, in most locations, in terms of being able to sell th…

I believe the wealth is in the car wash itself, not the profit you keep. You have to sell when it’s time retire/exit.

I am also not claiming that this wealth building process is anything close to fast.

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#65

Post by drstewart »

RajT88 wrote: post #5

If you get back down to basics, as business is an equitable arrangement where you offer to solve a problem, in exchange for making a profit in the process. At some point, the problem may no longer exist, or you may not be able to continue to make a profit. That's OK! You can pivot, or move on to another business. What I would love to see represented is some thinking around what should happen as a matter of best pract…

>At some point, the problem may no longer exist, or you may not be able to continue to make a profit. That's OK! You can pivot, or move on to another business.

Does your landlord take pivots as currency?

Anyway, I agree but for people complaining about layoffs. At some point, your job may no longer exist, or you may not be able to continue to take a salary. That's OK! You can pivot, or move on to another career.

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#66

Post by sircastor »

I've been mulling a Crowdfunding project for a while to make a product I have in mind. It is not a big product, not something 'everyone needs', and it doesn't have enough utility or audience to sustain a company around it. I want to make it, and I want to distribute it, but I don't want to operate a business and I don't want to simply give away the thing I made.

I want an ephemeral business - something that will last long enough that I can make my thing and be done. But I don't want all the overhead of creating a company just to do the darn thing.

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#68

Post by pclmulqdq »

Pretty much all businesses used to be basically ephemeral until about 150 years ago. The whole idea of a business that is intended to run perpetually just didn't exist in the West, and anything that ran long was tied to a family that plied a trade. Businesses were also a lot easier to understand: a corporation might run a ship or a mine, and go out of business (still having made everyone a lot richer) when the captain of the ship retires or the mine dries up. In fact, the way we value businesses today still somewhat applies that model.

Most attempts at perpetual businesses today fail after less than 100 years, too, so it looks like we haven't figured out how to actually make a perpetual business - aside from a few notable examples like Zildjian (the cymbal company). Most of the success stories here are businesses with modest ambitions under the tight control of a single family.

I think you could argue that the idea that a business has to be a long-lasting perpetual enterprise comes from an increase in the power of business managers, at the expense of both investors and employees. These long-lasting businesses give managers a chance to build empires and personally enrich themselves without worrying about anything so pedestrian as figuring out when to return cash to shareholders ("they can have a tiny dividend if they whine too much, but don't get in the way of the expansion of my empire").

Re: Should we normalize ephemeral businesses?

#70

Post by retrocryptid »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #68

Pretty much all businesses used to be basically ephemeral until about 150 years ago. The whole idea of a business that is intended to run perpetually just didn't exist in the West, and anything that ran long was tied to a family that plied a trade. Businesses were also a lot easier to understand: a corporation might run a ship or a mine, and go out of business (still having made everyone a lot richer) when the captai…

Yes. The East India Company was notoriously short lived.
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