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Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

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Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#171

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

bitL wrote: post #46

Frankly, most essays in MBA or almost any social science school can be outsourced to AI with a small context window so teachers need to get more creative; either force people to read more papers (larger context window) or make certain checkpoints throughout the assignment that need to continue context from previous portions in some specific ways.

I have a degree in chemistry, and years later went back to college to do Deaf Studies. I didn't complete that one, though I'd like to go back and try again. So I've seen both STEM and social sciences.

Deaf Studies is a small field. The experts mostly know each other personally. The lecturer cites a study, and then mentions that she was visiting the author last month, and describes chatting with the author's trilingual young child. The lecturer wrote the main textbook you ought to be citing, or perhaps their close friend did. Hallucinating citations would not work. I doubt that Open AI would be in any way helpful.

(Besides, I actively enjoy putting words together, and had a genuine love of the subject.)

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#172

Post by conductr »

flatline wrote: post #79

I really think we need a standard for citing AI generated/assisted content so people can use it in their work and call out that pieces of the work may be AI generated. It would be something of a gentleman’s agreement but it would make its use more transparent in academia and maybe even slow the current and ongoing onslaught of indeterminately generated content on the web. I also feel like any prof claiming cheating b…

Given misinformation provided in some GPT responses, what exactly are you citing? I think the method would be to use GPT for a rough draft, then do fact checking and/or find sources for the claims the GPT was using. In essence, it's a research tool. It seems like if people are just copy/pasting in results they aren't trying at all and very likely didn't even try to comprehend the outputs. It should be considered cheating to do that. At this point, cheating is so pervasive (even before ChatGPT), I feel like they need to change the testing approach; no specific ideas or solutions but seems like bringing back in person hand written testing would work for a lot of cases and subjects (not all).

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#173

Post by circuit10 »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #148
circuit10 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with the word “know”? And with Eliezer Yudkowsky?

Because it's a word prediction engine. It's just tokens and Bayesian inference. It has no understanding of what it's doing. If a math textbook has sentence x written in it, does the textbook know this information, or does it just have this information stored in it in a human-readable format? LLMs only present their stored data in a human-readable format on the output, the data set itself isn't readable.

But LLMs use and reason with the data, so the word “know” is probably appropriate. Think of it as a analogy, if you want, but it’s reasonable to draw a comparison with what humans do. Even without the reasoning part I’m sure people already use the word “know” to describe how software is able to perform a task or make use of information.

“It has no understanding”

I keep seeing this claim, I don’t understand what it’s supposed to mean. Do we humans have this magical “true understanding”? Can we test for it?

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#174

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

toss1 wrote: post #66

Professors might consider including ChatGPT in the assignment: Get ChatGPT to generate the pest output possible using your prompting skills (show the prompt work and progression), then critique it, find and distinguish the accurate parts and hallucinations (citing actual hardcopy book references). Students would have to both show knowledge of the topic and show knowledge of skilled use of LLMs (which should be a usef…

How is "skilled use of LLMs" a relevant skill in agricultural science?

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#175

Post by omgJustTest »

While this is clearly off-the-rails, it is also a great thing to happen (especially with the chance to redeem ones-self in the course). It might influence a whole group of otherwise sleeping intellectuals that maybe believing AI blindly leads to massive problems. Maybe there should be some limits to where it is applied ? maybe it is a great tool that needs more people to bend it back to sanity...

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#176

Post by wholinator2 »

cpitman wrote: post #88
themodelplumber wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point, there was also the professor who casually joined his class's private chat (given the surprise opportunity) and then got screenshots of the group's cheating process. I think he also got screenshots of the group suspecting that some other student was telling on them. Edit, found the original: https://web.archive.org/web/20220601073048/https://crumplab....

That seems like a bad representation of what happened. A teacher was invited to join a group chat at the beginning of the term. And then students started to use the chat to cheat, not realizing the teacher was part of the group. It's pretty clear the students were at fault, while also being really sloppy at cheating.

Yes, we had quite a debacle including a class chat that the much maligned teacher was not a part of. These kinds of chats should never see the light of day, and the kids in them should not create circumstances where someone feels they need to report it.

Having a parallel classroom the teacher cannot access can be a dangerous toy

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#177

Post by dotnet00 »

michaelt wrote: post #159
andai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might not be feasible depending on the size of the class. I had classes with 100-200 students. Most problems with education are simply due to scale. The most notable one being Bloom's finding that private tutoring produced 2 standard deviations better results than classroom education. We can kind of approximate that now with GPT :) One tutor per child!

> This might not be feasible depending on the size of the class. I had classes with 100-200 students. American colleges regularly collect $10,000+ in fees per student, so I'm not sure why a 20 minute oral exam would be infeasible?

You're asking for ~2000 minutes to examine a class of 100. That means either having many more TAs than most classes have or making examination periods way longer than they are.

Then, even with all that you aren't really making any real improvement, as the skills involved in an oral exam are not necessarily relevant to those which need to be tested, thus making the exam at best similar in uselessness to a written exam and at worst, actively harmful in testing performance.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#178

Post by Chinjut »

macleginn wrote: post #48
thadt wrote: post #28

The ability to 'cheat' on written assignments has always been a possibility. With the rise of the Internet, it became easier to source it from more places - with a counter balancing rise of plagiarism detectors. Now with Google, Grammarly and ChatGPT, it is trivial to copy/paste a pipeline with enough entropy to defeat many if not most detectors. I suspect the next generation of tools will be finish this cycle - we w…

Seriously, though. Q to ChatGPT: ‘Was this text generated by ChatGPT? "The ability to 'cheat' on written assignments has always been a possibility. With the rise of the Internet, it became easier to source it from more places - with a counter balancing rise of plagiarism detectors. Now with Google, Grammarly and ChatGPT, it is trivial to copy/paste a pipeline with enough entropy to defeat many if not most detectors.…

Why does anyone trust ChatGPT to correctly answer this question? It's a text prediction engine, not an all purpose correct answer generator. A yes or a no answer is the sort of text that would follow a question like this, certainly.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#179

Post by dmd »

Chinjut wrote: post #178
macleginn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, though. Q to ChatGPT: ‘Was this text generated by ChatGPT? "The ability to 'cheat' on written assignments has always been a possibility. With the rise of the Internet, it became easier to source it from more places - with a counter balancing rise of plagiarism detectors. Now with Google, Grammarly and ChatGPT, it is trivial to copy/paste a pipeline with enough entropy to defeat many if not most detectors.…

Why does anyone trust ChatGPT to correctly answer this question? It's a text prediction engine, not an all purpose correct answer generator. A yes or a no answer is the sort of text that would follow a question like this, certainly.

They don't. That's the point being made.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#180

Post by akiselev »

arp242 wrote: post #149
kevviiinn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same exact thing in HN comments where someone copied stats directly from chatgpt and then cited chatgpt

According to ChatGPT I'm an OpenBSD developer. I have never submitted any patches to OpenBSD.

It keeps telling me you're a Mongolian warlord from the 13th century [1].

[1] https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mr_Prosser

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