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EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

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Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#321

Post by anonymouskimmer »

prepend wrote: post #289
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you're responding to. The "age rule" [1] about dating is that the younger person is at least half the age of the older person plus 7 years. This implies that it's okay for a 20 year old to date a 17 year old, but not a 21 year old (unless the 17 year old is 17 and a half). It's a kind of silly rule, but has some purpose in terms of "ickyness" (edit: and equivalent maturity) when applied to people i…

This is a silly rule as a 40 year old marrying a 20 year old breaks the rule and there are many situations where this can be explained. And it’s legal everywhere. This rule isn’t a rule at all as a heuristic to use at dinner parties to be snooty about rich people and trophy wives (they are almost always rich old men with young women exchanging their youth and beauty for wealth. It’s icky, but I think everyone underst…

I know, I said it was silly.

A 40 year old coupling with a 20 year old is still icky to me due to the life experience as an adult divide. A 30 year old with a 50 year old much less so; I just think the 30 year old is setting themself up to spend a lot of time as a caretaker at some point.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#322

Post by rayiner »

usernew wrote: post #252
rayiner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’re right, that is a misquote. But what he actually wrote honestly wasn’t that much better. “Much better” in what sense? I think Minsky is guilty because using sex workers is categorically immoral. But most on HN don’t agree with me, and think that it would’ve been no problem had Virginia Giuffre been 18 and willing. In that case, doesn’t Minsky’s moral culpability turn on whether he knew Giuffre was 17 and unwi…

I honestly gotta ask. Why is it that half the planet commenting on young sex with very strong, very critical opinions, keeps confusing the age of consent with the age you're allowed to vote? On 99% of the planet, if a 17yo acts like, and is willing to screw your brains out, you're good to go and quite legal. In fact, same for a 16yo. In fact, on half the planet including a large portion stateside, that works for 15 t…

> The fact that you bring up morals here is very telling.

Do you not have them?

> Sex is not some magical scary thing

Clearly that’s not true—virtually every society treats sexual assault as a far worse crime than the equivalent physical assault. In the “Me Too!” era, words about sex can get you fired and blacklisted in ways similarly offensive words about other subjects won’t. And that makes sense as a matter of science. Sex is how humans procreate. Women’s power over mate selection plays a critical role in ensuring fitness of the species. It’s totally unsurprising, therefore, that we have developed myriad social mechanisms to reinforce women’s power over mate selection.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#323

Post by rayiner »

sph wrote: post #257
usernew wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly gotta ask. Why is it that half the planet commenting on young sex with very strong, very critical opinions, keeps confusing the age of consent with the age you're allowed to vote? On 99% of the planet, if a 17yo acts like, and is willing to screw your brains out, you're good to go and quite legal. In fact, same for a 16yo. In fact, on half the planet including a large portion stateside, that works for 15 t…

American culture, including Puritanism, being exported worldwide since the 1980s, first through Hollywood and then through tech. You will not find a less Puritanical view of the matter on a forum composed of mostly people from the US or deeply embedded within its culture, like many software engineers are. For US and tech, sex talk and sexual freedom is a concept best avoided. You'll find more people arguing against g…

Americans are sexual deviants by the standards of Asia (where I’m from), the Middle East, and Africa.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#324

Post by rayiner »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #318
mensetmanusman wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You did nothing wrong, neither did the hooker, nor is sex work "immoral." " This is one opinion, not held by the majority globally.

In most of the world prostitution is either legal or tolerated and not really looked down upon. You might be right that it is an opinion, but you're wrong that it is not held by the majority globally. Most people throughout the world would agree with the person you're responding to.

Prostitution is illegal throughout Asia, which has a plurality of the world’s population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Asia. Even in places where it is legal or semi-legal, it is an unspeakably grave moral offense. For example it’s legal in Bangladesh, where I’m from. But that’s because it’s viewed as a last resort for desperate women who have no families in a country that has no social safety net. Prostitutes are outcasts from the rest of society.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#325

Post by GoblinSlayer »

moralestapia wrote: post #229
kenjackson wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Gates didn't say much about it, except he didn't know about any of the "bad stuff" and was deceived. Stallman said a bunch of to try to either claim that the victims weren't victims. Or to try to downplay what happened. Those are huge differences.

>he didn't know about any of the "bad stuff" and was deceived ??? Then his wife proceeds to get out of there asap, idk man, actions speak louder ...

It happens over false allegations just fine.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#326

Post by kabdib »

Flatcircle wrote: post #242
kabdib wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was verbally abused and publicly insulted by RMS, I'm okay with this.

The man that did the heavy lifting to create the open source operating system would predictably have personality quirks (or even worse), we should just be doing what our ancestors did, make fun of him and complain behind his back (half-joking) but to cancel his appearances in which he'd discuss his professional career and thoughts on computer science, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. this man is not a no…

It is an interesting question, how much you separate the personality from the accomplishments.

I've been using Emacs since the late 1970s (actually, an Emacs clone, since 1990). It's a great editor, and he wrote a lot of it.

But I won't support or condone his behavior, nor am I interested in anything he has to say.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#327

Post by ilceltico »

huhtenberg wrote: post #312
ilceltico wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EPFL PhD student here. This lecture was organised, and then canceled, by a student association called CLIC, not by EPFL. Notice that the linked website is not EPFL's

It was organized by Ynternet [1]. CLIC, I'm guessing, was mainly used for logistics, which is why their withdrawal ultimately pulled the rug from under everyone. [1] https://ynternet.org/detail-de-la-conference/epfl-conference...

Ah I see now, thanks for the clarification. I was wondering if CLIC was the sole organiser or not

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#328

Post by friend_and_foe »

rayiner wrote: post #319
friend_and_foe wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you til the last paragraph. Why does the age of consent just keep going up? How long before we have laws regulating age gaps for full grown adults? At what age does a person get entrusted by the All Knowing Democratic State to make all their own personal decisions for themselves? Maybe the real explanation is that the age is arbitrary, a 17 year old is most likely as capable as an 18 year old of making these…

> Why does the age of consent just keep going up? Human brains aren’t fully developed until the mid-20s. Historically, people got married and had sex long before that, but those relationships were arranged by family that at least in theory was supposed to make good decisions for the young person. As society has moved to an individualistic model, where adults are taken out of the loop, it makes sense that the age of c…

No, "trafficking" is a legal term that means people were unlawfully coerced into work.

I don't just disagree with the view, it is on its face disingenuous.

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#329

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #324
friend_and_foe wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most of the world prostitution is either legal or tolerated and not really looked down upon. You might be right that it is an opinion, but you're wrong that it is not held by the majority globally. Most people throughout the world would agree with the person you're responding to.

Prostitution is illegal throughout Asia, which has a plurality of the world’s population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Asia . Even in places where it is legal or semi-legal, it is an unspeakably grave moral offense. For example it’s legal in Bangladesh, where I’m from. But that’s because it’s viewed as a last resort for desperate women who have no families in a country that has no social safety net.…

[deleted]

Re: EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona

#330

Post by tivert »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #70
tivert wrote: post #21

Did Stallman do anything new that offended certain political persuasions, or is this cancellation only due to previous controversies/peculiarities? Edit: the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing.

> the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit.

> People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit.

It wasn't just my comment, others were downvoted and flag-killed too (though I can't identify the exact one I saw killed, because it looks like it's been vouched or deleted).

And the "offended certain political persuasions" bit is apt, even if some people don't like it. There's a big one nowadays that will characteristically treat people like Stallman has been treated here.

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