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Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#61

Post by nickdothutton »

harry8 wrote: post #33
stakhanov wrote: post #19

> I tell my engineers that if they know I’m about to do something stupid, they have to tell me, so I don’t do it. My career advice: If your boss tells you to not be afraid to disagree with them, don't do it. It's a trap. I've been suckered into this one numerous times, and there was not a single occasion where it didn't backfire. People like to think of themselves as being that enlightened, but rarely (in my personal…

Also, sadly: "HR is your enemy. The role of HR is to protect the CEO and his team when they do something unspeakable and to smooth the way when firing people."

HR in large firms is the “people risk department”. People introduce all sorts of risk to a company. They sometimes don’t perform, they have bad behaviours that cause secondary effects/blowback on the company (you didn’t protect me from employee X with bad behaviour Y causing me problem Z).

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#62

Post by pydry »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #39
stakhanov wrote: post #19

> I tell my engineers that if they know I’m about to do something stupid, they have to tell me, so I don’t do it. My career advice: If your boss tells you to not be afraid to disagree with them, don't do it. It's a trap. I've been suckered into this one numerous times, and there was not a single occasion where it didn't backfire. People like to think of themselves as being that enlightened, but rarely (in my personal…

It works with good bosses. You will know pretty quickly if they're good by how they act. I've told good bosses what they need to hear and it's gone down well. Mind, the good ones are not common; the bad do predominate.

It's highly culturally dependent too. I found that in Singapore nobody with authority tolerated it, whereas authority in the US and UK was more tolerant.

Even more than culture and the nature of the boss, though, I think how many other people hear of the criticism. The optimal number is 0.

Bosses who don't have anything to prove tend to be more receptive, too. Vint squarely falls in that category. I'm not sure he'd be as receptive if he was at the tail end of an unimpressive middle management career, being challenged by some younger employees.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#63

Post by aardvark179 »

harry8 wrote: post #33
stakhanov wrote: post #19

> I tell my engineers that if they know I’m about to do something stupid, they have to tell me, so I don’t do it. My career advice: If your boss tells you to not be afraid to disagree with them, don't do it. It's a trap. I've been suckered into this one numerous times, and there was not a single occasion where it didn't backfire. People like to think of themselves as being that enlightened, but rarely (in my personal…

Also, sadly: "HR is your enemy. The role of HR is to protect the CEO and his team when they do something unspeakable and to smooth the way when firing people."

HR is not your friend, but to say they are your enemy is overly reductive.

The job of HR is to protect the company, which often means ensuring things are done by the book, or that enough compensation is given that it is better to take the money than argue.

They aren't your friend, but they aren't your bosses friend either, and if your boss is trying to do something that will get the company in trouble then you may find that you and HR are on the same side. I've seen this happen when a friend's manager was trying to put somebody on a PIP without a good reason and it did not end well for the manager.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#64

Post by FredPret »

VampireDentist wrote: post #55
FredPret wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either not serious or you're so deep in the bubble you can't see the edges. Close to 100% of liberal arts teaching staff are Democrats [1] [2] [3]. It didn't use to be this way [4] [5]. [1] https://www.pacificresearch.org/why-are-teachers-mostly-libe... [2] https://www.thecollegefix.com/zero-republican-professors/ [3] https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/partisan-registration-and-... [4] https://nationalaffairs.c…

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Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#65

Post by watwut »

harry8 wrote: post #33
stakhanov wrote: post #19

> I tell my engineers that if they know I’m about to do something stupid, they have to tell me, so I don’t do it. My career advice: If your boss tells you to not be afraid to disagree with them, don't do it. It's a trap. I've been suckered into this one numerous times, and there was not a single occasion where it didn't backfire. People like to think of themselves as being that enlightened, but rarely (in my personal…

Also, sadly: "HR is your enemy. The role of HR is to protect the CEO and his team when they do something unspeakable and to smooth the way when firing people."

When our company hired HR, a lot improved. They were not my friends, but they did a much better administrative job then the chaos previously.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#66

Post by paulryanrogers »

FredPret wrote: post #42
emodendroket wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The degree introduces indoctrination. I have yet to hear a principled distinction between "education" and "indoctrination" that doesn't boil down to whether the speaker agrees with the content being taught.

Here's a definition of indoctrination: the country is split nearly 50-50 on political issues, but 99-100% of faculty is in only one of those two camps

Is that evidence of indoctrination or self selection? Or that faculty are significantly more educated? Or that the system has developed its own selection filters, perhaps some with good reason (and others not so good).

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#67

Post by tyingq »

aardvark179 wrote: post #63
harry8 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, sadly: "HR is your enemy. The role of HR is to protect the CEO and his team when they do something unspeakable and to smooth the way when firing people."

HR is not your friend, but to say they are your enemy is overly reductive. The job of HR is to protect the company, which often means ensuring things are done by the book, or that enough compensation is given that it is better to take the money than argue. They aren't your friend, but they aren't your bosses friend either, and if your boss is trying to do something that will get the company in trouble then you may fi…

That's true, though I think statistically, the higher up the food chain you are, the more likely HR is going to be your friend. Leadership tends to band together and influence HR policy to favor managers over do-ers.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#68

Post by davidgerard »

stakhanov wrote: post #15

This career advice sounds more like what someone would say who asked themselves "Hmm... What sort of career advice would make me look good if I gave it?" It having anything to do with his actual experiences, beliefs, and opinions seems kind of optional.

It's bizarre to suggest Vint Cerf has anything to prove in such a manner at this point.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#69

Post by meltyness »

coldtea wrote: post #59
stakhanov wrote: post #19

> I tell my engineers that if they know I’m about to do something stupid, they have to tell me, so I don’t do it. My career advice: If your boss tells you to not be afraid to disagree with them, don't do it. It's a trap. I've been suckered into this one numerous times, and there was not a single occasion where it didn't backfire. People like to think of themselves as being that enlightened, but rarely (in my personal…

And the worse are often those that brag about how "open to criticism" they are. It's a trap for literally-minded/low-EQ people. There are those that are indeed open to criticism, but those are almost never the one's that are gonna tell you about how open they are. Rather they are the ones that will actively engage in such discussions and technical arguments with you, and even enjoy it. You wont be "invited to critici…

This is a bad attitude, and doesn't acknowledge the importance of collaboration.

Now in a given position you may not have appropriate communications skills (or missed a memo, intent, constraint) but if you keep your criticisms objective and organized, this probably isn't a trap.

Leveraging some hard to address criticism in a public setting, too late, and viciously is very different from a timely, short, semi-private email. It's rule 1 of communication: know your audience.

Re: Vint Cerf’s career advice for engineers

#70

Post by chasd00 »

sph wrote: post #34
grose wrote: post #8

What’s up with the sol.int email addresses on the whiteboard? Seems to be related to IPN/DTN but I can’t find anything concrete on the naming scheme.

Yeah it looks like some planning and brainstorming for some kind of interplanetary and galactic DNS scheme. Pretty cool, though it needs another TLD than .int, which is already used for international entities.

iirc there was talk about an interplanetary internet a while back and i think Cerf was involved. Can't remember when or where nor did I RTFA. so.. take this for what it's worth :)
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