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Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

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Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#91

Post by meerita »

Scarblac wrote: post #25
tfourb wrote: post #3

There are also quite convincing studies that show even worse declines for insect populations, again mostly due to industrialized farming techniques and the widespread use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The standard approach in the EU to work against this really worrying trend is to a) bring more and more land under some form of protection and remove it from agricultural production and b) increase the share o…

And eating less meat, so we can do with less agricultural production.

Do you realize it's not just about meat but also about the excessive farming practices used to produce vegetables? Animals naturally fertilize the earth.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#92

Post by ClumsyPilot »

pvaldes wrote: post #73
Scarblac wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And eating less meat, so we can do with less agricultural production.

The big plot hole in this master plan that many people apparently can't see or accept. If we remove the production of meat, this will severely harm the production of vegetables. They are connected. You can't have real agriculture without manure. Fossil guano is a finite, scarce and very expensive resource, and human manure is not so desirable as replacement by several reasons so, how do they expect to feed their gree…

This is plainly not accurate - manure from most aninals, especially pig farms, is a hazardous easte to dispose of. Only a small percentage of manure is reused as fertiliser because transporting it is expensive, and messy. Often it needs to be processed before it can be used safely. You can gooogle 'industrial farm US' and see pictures of ani als standing knee deep in their own poop. Also it is illegal to take photos of factory farms in some states.

We feed a lot of grains to aninals as feed. That food coupd be used to feed people. We could certainly downsize meat producting by 70% withiit any adverse impacts -most people eat way too mich meat

PS: There is some strange disbelief below, people think without manure cropping will bot work - this is plainly fanasyland - most of farmland never sees 'natural' fertiliser.

"A recent study by USDA, Economic Research Service identified opportunities for increasing the use of manure as a fertilizer. In 2020, farmers applied manure to less than 8 percent of the 240.9 million acres planted to seven major U.S. field crops."

In uk "In 2019, organic manure was applied to 26% of the area of tillage crops"

This is easilly accessible information.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#93

Post by Someone »

pif wrote: post #53
hug wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not particularly useful as a scientific method, and obviously not attempting to counter your broader point asking for more detailed analysis, there’s incredibly compelling evidence: Go for a 100 mile drive at night, and count the bugs on your windshield. Ask your parents about it. Ask every 70 year old you know. Bugs are in decline. There’s absolutely no lack of evidence. We know it’s real. We just haven’t cata…

Could this effect be caused, or enhanced, by the aerodynamics of the modern cars?

Could also be that insects evolved to avoid long black patches of ground.

That doesn’t look likely, but also not impossible. That’s why we need the study.

Also, predator-prey systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka–Volterra_equations) can have fairly large cycles with huge population swings. That makes verifying that there really is a decline not _that_ easy. You can’t just repeat an insect count done 30 years ago and compare the numbers.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#94

Post by cjrp »

manojlds wrote: post #37
tfourb wrote: post #3

There are also quite convincing studies that show even worse declines for insect populations, again mostly due to industrialized farming techniques and the widespread use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The standard approach in the EU to work against this really worrying trend is to a) bring more and more land under some form of protection and remove it from agricultural production and b) increase the share o…

I had to learn about this from Clarkson of all people. He seems to genuinely be involved in what he's doing and Clarkson's Farm is a great show as well!

I'd recommend "Harry's Farm" on Youtube as well. He's in a similar situation, where realistically he's not financially-dependant on the farm any more (made money elsewhere), but has great insight into the day-to-day running of one.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#96

Post by edumucelli »

tfourb wrote: post #3

There are also quite convincing studies that show even worse declines for insect populations, again mostly due to industrialized farming techniques and the widespread use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The standard approach in the EU to work against this really worrying trend is to a) bring more and more land under some form of protection and remove it from agricultural production and b) increase the share o…

That is simply not true! Use of mechanical farming and fertilizers/pesticides can be beaten in productivity by permacultural practices. One example in France that has been followed by researches (and has produced several papers [1]) is the Ferme du Bec.

It is able to produce multiple times more and more qualitative (organic), for the same area than the national average mechanized production in France.

The pesticide industry and mega farmers want you to believe that what they are doing is to produce more food, but that does not stand the fact check of initiatives like permacultural ones.

[1] https://www.fermedubec.com/la-ferme/la-recherche/ (scroll to the "STUDY REPORTS (English versions)" if you do not speak French.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#97

Post by AlecSchueler »

worldsayshi wrote: post #16
tfourb wrote: post #3

There are also quite convincing studies that show even worse declines for insect populations, again mostly due to industrialized farming techniques and the widespread use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The standard approach in the EU to work against this really worrying trend is to a) bring more and more land under some form of protection and remove it from agricultural production and b) increase the share o…

> push towards regenerative agricultural practices Say I would really like to be part of pushing towards this in some way. Maybe through volunteering, by making a career adjustment (I'm full stack engineer) or going back to studying for a bit. What can I do?

With your salary you could easily afford to by some land in eg Portugal and hire someone to manage as you see fit.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#98

Post by ClumsyPilot »

CalRobert wrote: post #39
elzbardico wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, stop this fake news of meat growing in burned-down rainforest farms. Most of the cattle in brazil is raised on biomes that were never rainforests to start, no matter what the lie the NYT told you. Free-ranged cattle are also usually raised in regions that are very marginal in arable land. And in fact, bovines filled an ecological niche in the "Pantanal" region that was once occupied by native herbivores, exti…

Well, it's not just Brazil. A lot of meat in Europe is grown on burned or cut-down forest, it just happens to be the case it was done centuries ago.

Yes, the entire talk of destruction of rain forests comes across as a little hypocritical when it's coming from countries with like 6% forest cover.

I was up in scottish highlands recently and many hills are bold like someone just shaved them. Looks weired.

The only solution O see is to habe a global forestly fund, so developing countries can get paid but dont have to destroy forests.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#99

Post by bitL »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #92
pvaldes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big plot hole in this master plan that many people apparently can't see or accept. If we remove the production of meat, this will severely harm the production of vegetables. They are connected. You can't have real agriculture without manure. Fossil guano is a finite, scarce and very expensive resource, and human manure is not so desirable as replacement by several reasons so, how do they expect to feed their gree…

This is plainly not accurate - manure from most aninals, especially pig farms, is a hazardous easte to dispose of. Only a small percentage of manure is reused as fertiliser because transporting it is expensive, and messy. Often it needs to be processed before it can be used safely. You can gooogle 'industrial farm US' and see pictures of ani als standing knee deep in their own poop. Also it is illegal to take photos…

Some people can only eat meat due to autoimmune issues exacerbated by vegetables. Are we going to sacrifice them?
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