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IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

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Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#341
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. “We’ve submitted your tax return for you using the standard deduction. If you’d like to itemize your deduction, please send us Form 1050 Itemized Deduction worksheet.”

Itemized deductions are far from the only thing that the IRS doesn’t know about. Almost everything on Schedule C, and RSU and ESPP cost basis would also probably require manual intervention. Probably a bunch of other credits as well, like the tax credit for buying an EV, solar/energy efficiency, adoption, various student-related deductions/credits, etc.

Easy to task the seller with reporting when offering the various energy efficiency subsidies.

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not American, but as I understand it the IRS has to pay interest in the case of an overpayment? That's a disincentive for them to screw you over.

No, the IRS doesn't pay anyone interest. You will owe them interest if you underpay, however.

Meh it's rare, but the IRS does occasionally pay people interest. Usually it's of the "we were reviewing taxes and you overpaid by X amount so here is (1.03)^(years)×x." Still nonzero. Happened to me. https://www.irs.gov/payments/interest#pay

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#343
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: "If you think you owe less or more due to details we don't have, feel free to file the old way"

And that's probably the main reason it isnt done. The IRS assumes nearly no one would report extra taxable income if they came out and said all of the things they already knew (and by implication, dont know).

It's not done for two reasons:

1) The tax software industry 2) Libertarian/far right groups want to make it hard for you to pay your taxes.

Here's a Planet Money episode talking about this: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: "If you think you owe less or more due to details we don't have, feel free to file the old way"

I’d be happy with a system like this, as long as they made it very clear WHEN you should do it the old way. For example: “Our estimate of your income may be too high in certain situations, for example if you are a business owner, independent contractor, or receive income from RSU or ESPP sales where the tax basis reported to the IRS is missing or inaccurate. In those cases, you are encouraged to fill out your tax ret…

I don't understand why the RSU basis adjustment isn't reported automatically. All of the information is available without my involvement...

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#345
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's probably the main reason it isnt done. The IRS assumes nearly no one would report extra taxable income if they came out and said all of the things they already knew (and by implication, dont know).

Here we go. American exceptionalism again. No surprise here. It isn’t done because your government is stupid and corrupt. Look at the myriad other examples of this happening in other countries.

Thanks. Glad to have this pat and reductive answer to all of our problems.

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#346
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form would be a huge efficiency gain. Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good.

> Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good. Which makes sense in a lot of spheres where's there's obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. If the IRS is wrong, then there's effectively no penalty for them. The government wants it both ways.…

> Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution.

I think there's a huge gap between facing an audit in most circumstances and those two outcomes...

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#347
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's probably the main reason it isnt done. The IRS assumes nearly no one would report extra taxable income if they came out and said all of the things they already knew (and by implication, dont know).

Here we go. American exceptionalism again. No surprise here. It isn’t done because your government is stupid and corrupt. Look at the myriad other examples of this happening in other countries.

"It isn't done" isn't responsive to this article about how it is being done.

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unnecessary labor and expense is the point in this model. The argument is that taxes are bad and people should be a strong check on the government that is attempting to tax them. The more explicit and painful the process is (the theory goes) the more people will support limitations on taxes, rather than allowing them to expand unchecked. The theory makes sense, and the ends are laudable, but it doesn't work. Othe…

> The theory makes sense Regardless of how one feels about arguments against taxation, that theory for how to achieve it does not make sense. It is belligerent sleight of hand from people who want to preserve the status quo of a sheltered income funnel for the tax preparation economy at the extremely inefficient labor expense of everyone else. Here's the problem... You're literally creating something entirely unrelat…

It seems your line of reasoning is predicated on the idea that people are rational about these things. I think that can be quite mixed, in reality.

A counterpoint might be: if you earnestly and honestly want to change people's behavior via whatever means necessary, then non-logical correlation/causation associations, appeals to emotion, and other smokescreens as you mention are effective tools and may get you there faster than logical sequences would.

That's just been my experience; YMMV.

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#349
i am of two minds on this.

FIRST, obviously, there are probably fewer dark patterns in anything than the intuit / us tax situation. there are so many problems with our tax system and the way it eats away at working people while barely touching the wealthiest folks.

i’ve had some unfortunate interactions with the CA Franchise Tax Board in recent years that have made me question whether the IRS will choose to be transparent and treat us fairly if this passes.

I’m certainly no tax expert, so the notion that I may have made a small mistake in past tax years that needed to be corrected is not unreasonable. that i was not provided with any detailed information, or really any communication at all, and the money was siezed from my paycheck without notice. The first time this happened was the second paycheck in the month of december. This sucked, but I was probably wrong, maybe I failed to update my contact address somewhere, and I always want to pay what I owe.

Fast forward to 2021/2022, somewhere in there, IIRC, the CA FTB, during a budget crisis, found that I was short a couple thousand over multiple years from several years back. I had never heard anything about this before, and they came at me for 2-3 years all at the same time. No information on what was incorrect.

CA has an, “Office of the Taxpayer Advocate”, because of course at some point we legislated that there should be someone paid by the state whose job is to help taxpayers who feel they have been wronged. Obviously there’s a weird conflict of interest here, but it’s better than nothing.

My interaction with the taxpayer advocate many years ago involved them trying to tax me for work I performed in an office in San Antonio, Texas, over a year before moving to California.

certainly part of this is about the fact that CA is a bit grabby at the entire lifetime income of anyone who relocates here, which is absolutely the fucking truth, but I also found these situations to give me pause on whether I want to trust the government to tell me whether or not I have correctly paid my taxes.

Even though I am single, live alone, no dependents, and claim 0, somehow I am always off.

If we want to simplify this, get out from under Intuit’s thumb, and have like 95% of the country or whatever not even have to worry about taxes, we have to fundamentally rethink how they are calculated.

Why isn’t my employer liable for not calculating the appropriate deduction? Why is this something I have to worry about? On balance, at this point in my career, a thousand bucks a year isn’t a big deal, the problem is asking me for it all at once, when there’s no great way for me to know to expect it.

I have, for the first time in my life, a small amount of savings, but I still don’t consider it a nest egg. That is my insurance for when I somehow manage to owe taxes even though I have done every single thing that I should do, correctly.

another knock on TurboTax is that they often end up calculating that you owe more tax than you do, and I think it backs up my concern that in those cases, the IRS does not say, “Hello, kind person, you gave us an extra $3,000, we would like to return it to you.”

It’s basically just fucking all bad.

Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants

#350
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many proposals along these lines, but Republicans in Congress don't like it because they believe making it painful to file taxes will win support for their generalized opposition to taxes.

Then give them something they want, like have the IRS send everyone a summary just exactly how much in taxes they actually pay. Let people know the "refund" they get is not money from the government but rather money the government took from them several months ago and is only getting around to giving back now. Make a clear comparison between the amount they're getting back and the amount the government kept, which fo…

Corporations can't donate to campaigns. Anyone using this to make a point is lying.

That page shows who employees of the companies have donated to.

(And the politicians aren't actually "bought" by it. It's more like they already agreed, and maybe they're being paid to stay politicians instead of getting a better paying less annoying private sector job.)

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