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U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

theintercept.com

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Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#171

Post by dukeofdoom »

majormajor wrote: post #170
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never I don't think that's what they're saying. I interpret that they believe the issues being faced during the pandemic hysteria weren't ones worthy of turning in family.

We weren't talking here about the pandemic OR turning in family so it's a confusing thing to bring up unless painting it as some sort of example of something where "government" should always come second?

Have you turned in your family members before? Just curious what it would take for you to do that? Jay walking or murder? I know in Quebec they had a curfew, and neighbours were ratting out neighbours. I come from the position that lockdowns did more harm than good. The damage to the economy and personal freedom, and eroding trust in government.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#172

Post by sangnoir »

nostromo wrote: post #156
cronix wrote: post #110

I don't find scraping publicly accessible data nearly as bad as when they circle planes over protests and track people. Not just the marshals service, but FBI[1] and even the US Air Force[2], etc. A prime example of this was during the riots in Kenosha, WI in 2020, and the subsequent trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. A good deal of the footage they used in the trial was from the FBI surveillance plane[3], and they supplied…

Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do. It doesn’t seem that there was any intimidation of peaceful protesters, which obviously would be concerning.

> Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do.

What - if any - is the difference between a riot and a protest?

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#173

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

majormajor wrote: post #170
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never I don't think that's what they're saying. I interpret that they believe the issues being faced during the pandemic hysteria weren't ones worthy of turning in family.

We weren't talking here about the pandemic OR turning in family so it's a confusing thing to bring up unless painting it as some sort of example of something where "government" should always come second?

> We weren't talking here about

This is a narrow framing. We were talking about "a society where others want you surveiled or dead or removed or heavily restricted" (emphasis mine). Bringing up recent events which exposed this side of society is not so off-topic.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#174

Post by [deleted] »

majormajor wrote: post #93
Dig1t wrote: post #45

So many people are okay with unconstitutional things as long as it supports their side and beliefs. It is genuinely unsettling. Personally, I don’t care about the underlying thing the protests are about, the important aspect is that if you allow unconstitutional government action like this, eventually it will be used against you. A decade from now we have no idea what the political climate will be. If the precedent i…

> Personally, I don’t care about the underlying thing the protests are about, the important aspect is that if you allow unconstitutional government action like this, eventually it will be used against you. Words won't protect you. Precedent won't protect you. Guns won't protect you. If you are in a society where others want you surveiled or dead or removed or heavily restricted, and you're outnumbered, it's already t…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#175

Post by bombcar »

sangnoir wrote: post #172
nostromo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do. It doesn’t seem that there was any intimidation of peaceful protesters, which obviously would be concerning.

> Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do. What - if any - is the difference between a riot and a protest?

Which side you’re on.

If they’re for what you support, they’re freedom lovers protesting the evils of the totalitarian government.

If they’re against what you support, they’re evil thugs rioting to overthrow the rightful government.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#176

Post by WeylandYutani »

majormajor wrote: post #93
Dig1t wrote: post #45

So many people are okay with unconstitutional things as long as it supports their side and beliefs. It is genuinely unsettling. Personally, I don’t care about the underlying thing the protests are about, the important aspect is that if you allow unconstitutional government action like this, eventually it will be used against you. A decade from now we have no idea what the political climate will be. If the precedent i…

> Personally, I don’t care about the underlying thing the protests are about, the important aspect is that if you allow unconstitutional government action like this, eventually it will be used against you. Words won't protect you. Precedent won't protect you. Guns won't protect you. If you are in a society where others want you surveiled or dead or removed or heavily restricted, and you're outnumbered, it's already t…

Very true. I have my issues with the Netherlands (no country is perfect) but the majority is atheist and religion holds no power here.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#177

Post by nostromo »

sangnoir wrote: post #172
nostromo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do. It doesn’t seem that there was any intimidation of peaceful protesters, which obviously would be concerning.

> Monitoring an active riot seems pretty much what I’d expect the FBI to do. What - if any - is the difference between a riot and a protest?

If you're starting buildings on fire, that's probably a riot.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#178

Post by rayiner »

mullingitover wrote: post #141
rayiner wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why restrict your analysis to such a narrow scope? Abortion was illegal in every state in the US by 1910. It’s also still illegal in my home country, which is a Muslim country on the other side of the planet from the US. Opposition to abortion is longstanding across completely different cultures and religions. It’s not credible to say it’s something that arises from evangelical Christianity or a late 20th century pol…

> Abortion was illegal in every state in the US by 1910. Let's be clear about what was illegal, because the radical definition, 'life begins at fertilization', is a recent innovation[1]: > Abortion was not always a crime. During the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, abortion of early pregnancy was legal under common law.[22] Abortions were illegal only after "quickening," the point at which a pregnant woman…

I’m not talking about the common law. Due to medical advances in the 1800s, abortion was illegal at all stages of pregnancy in the US by 1910.

Also, “life begins at conception,” or at another very early stage, isn’t a Christian innovation. That’s the belief in Shia Islam. Certain Sunni schools also prohibit abortion at any stage. In Thailand, a Buddhist country, abortion was illegal at all stages of pregnancy until 2021.

Same thing in Hinduism: https://indiacurrents.com/a-hindu-view-on-abortion/

Prohibitions against abortion, even at early stages, are common across the world’s belief systems. Perhaps the only thing you could call uncommon is the view that abortion is impermissible even to save the life of the mother. But that’s an uncommon view even within evangelical Christianity.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#179

Post by WeylandYutani »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #115
Dig1t wrote: post #45

So many people are okay with unconstitutional things as long as it supports their side and beliefs. It is genuinely unsettling. Personally, I don’t care about the underlying thing the protests are about, the important aspect is that if you allow unconstitutional government action like this, eventually it will be used against you. A decade from now we have no idea what the political climate will be. If the precedent i…

Its always staggering to think people forget we only have a two party system. You'd think that would keep both parties in check from abusing their powers considering at some point the party you went after and did suspect things in order to win a few elections? Well, they're going to be back in power and what do you think they're going to do? The same thing you did. I feel like we're currently in this death spiral whe…

When was the last time New York went red? Or Mississippi blue?

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#180

Post by redeux »

rayiner wrote: post #132
redeux wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what relevance this has for a secular nation like the United States.

America isn’t a “secular” nation. It’s a religiously pluralistic nation. That means that all of the various non-falsifiable moral ideologies, from Christianity to Islam to secular humanism, are on equal political footing. If more people prioritize the mother’s invisible, non-falsifiable “right to bodily autonomy” over the fetus’s invisible, non-falsifiable “right to life” then you can permit abortion. If the opposite…

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …

The United States government, which is what we’re discussing is absolutely a secular body. The various religions or non-religions of the citizenry are irrelevant, constitutionally.

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