As long as the system is correct and I don't get jailed I would use it out of principle regardless of UX.
IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
221–230 of 589 posts
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah the American system absurd. “We have all the data but you still need to figure it out yourself and if you get it wrong you’ll get in trouble”. The Australian system has improved a lot over the past few years - PAYG (employment), bank interest, and dividends are all pre-filled on your tax return. So all you need to figure out is deductions and other income. I’d still like to see it taken a step further like in th…
> Yeah the American system absurd. The hilarious thing is that if we remove the context from this statement it applies so broadly that you could mean just about of our systems. Having absurd systems is pretty much our defining characteristic.
You're not exactly wrong, but I think that's true of most countries.
We're just not aware of foreign dirty laundry, and as a tourist you'll not notice.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah the American system absurd. “We have all the data but you still need to figure it out yourself and if you get it wrong you’ll get in trouble”. The Australian system has improved a lot over the past few years - PAYG (employment), bank interest, and dividends are all pre-filled on your tax return. So all you need to figure out is deductions and other income. I’d still like to see it taken a step further like in th…
> Yeah the American system absurd. The hilarious thing is that if we remove the context from this statement it applies so broadly that you could mean just about of our systems. Having absurd systems is pretty much our defining characteristic.
Bureaucracies naturally foster absurdity, but the US is solidly middle-of-the road when it comes to absurdities, and only seems more absurd because 1) it's the third-largest country in the world, and 2) it's so often in the spotlight.
Of course, it's good to celebrate specific absurdities being overturned, as is (slowly) being done in this instance.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah the American system absurd. “We have all the data but you still need to figure it out yourself and if you get it wrong you’ll get in trouble”. The Australian system has improved a lot over the past few years - PAYG (employment), bank interest, and dividends are all pre-filled on your tax return. So all you need to figure out is deductions and other income. I’d still like to see it taken a step further like in th…
> Yeah the American system absurd. “We have all the data but you still need to figure it out yourself and if you get it wrong you’ll get in trouble”. IRS knows all the income data only in simple cases like salaried employees with W-2 forms. If you are business owner or contractor the things can be more complicated and what IRS really knows is a guessing game. IRS is posturing and bluffing that they know everything an…
> IRS knows all the income data only in simple cases like salaried employees with W-2 forms. If you are business owner or contractor the things can be more complicated
If you already can avoid the trouble for 50% (?) of the people who are in the standard case, it's already a massive win.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#225"The Internal Revenue Service has quietly built its own prototype system to allow Americans to file tax returns digitally and free of charge"
I think opening the article this way is misleading, although they explain it better later on. This isn't about filing for free, it's about guided tax preparation. Those automated systems that ask a series of simple questions and magically submit your tax return.
That's why tax complexity is the underlying issue. To do your taxes you "just" have to follow along a 100+ page instruction booklet (plus instruction booklets for any additional forms). Even with the Free Fillable Forms (free government electronic filing for everyone with digital forms and some automated calculations) it's a pain in the butt. By rephrasing the questions, automating the calculations, and checking for errors, fairly complex taxes can be done in under an hour.
So we're playing this stupid game where the government spends the time and money to write complex taxes and all the forms and instructions to go with them, just for us to pay businesses to simplify it all so we can tell the government what our taxes really are. I hope this change takes a big chunk out of the $14 billion tax prep industry (that's more than the IRS's expenditures), because maybe when they're out of the game Congress will be a little more motivated.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#226How can I put this, you don't want this free thing or big name tax preparing companies.
Everyone from poor people to billionaires needs a guy who can game the system. The popular sentiment on HN and similar sites is strange to me, yes the IRS knows how much I owe them, no I don't want to pay that, I want to pay less or get more refund (same thing, taking into account witholdings). Do you all have so much money you think everyone else also thinks the convenience of filing tax is not worth the extra money?
The right guy has saved me 10K+, this is especially true when you contract.
The thing is, the government doesn't know everything I do, and I won't be able to even think of those things when filing. I need a guy asking me "did you work from home or take toll way to work?" And the works his magic.
You think you're doing poor people a service but they'll file it on irs's website and get a lot less because they don't know to ask the right questions to get all the nice deductions.
I swear everything on HN political these days is "big gov and corp bad,never trust". It's never that simple.
Oh and get this, maybe all these people behind this movement don't know this but every poor person I have known files taxes for free. Not only are there volunteer ngo's, individuals also do that at libraries and such.
"The government already knows how much I make and how much I owe, why don't they send me the bill?" So you can tell them you owe less! There is just no way around the fact that there are tax deductions and exemptions and all that.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
The weird thing is the IRS already knows my taxes better than I do… a few times I’ve made mistakes inputting forms or forgot to put something in, and I will always get a letter from them about it. They’ve already done my taxes so they should just send me a bill and not waste my time, possibly with the option to submit extra details they are missing like deductions… but that should be an option for people that need it…
I'm not saying it's a GOOD reason, but the main reason the government doesn't just send you a tax bill and say, "here, now pay up" is because there are lots of things which are taxed but the government doesn't "see" because they are not (or cannot reliably be) reported. This goes for certain credits and deductions as well. So the only real leverage they have is to tell everyone to get it right or face the possibility…
Other countries just calculate up an estimated bill and it seems to work for them. Is there something about US taxes that makes that solution intractable?
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yeah the American system absurd. The hilarious thing is that if we remove the context from this statement it applies so broadly that you could mean just about of our systems. Having absurd systems is pretty much our defining characteristic.
List a few. For the ppl who downvoted your comment.
Downvoting can also happen, if people believe, that the comment won't lead to an interesting debate.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#229For what it is worth, even with my medium-complex tax return I have had great results with freetaxusa.com for the past few years. The first couple of times we used it we ran the taxes through TurboTax and FreeTax at the same time and due to better UI the FreeTax version was faster and less confusing. That said, at the end of the process after entering all of the same information in the same places the TurboTax one di…
freetaxusa.com user here as well. It's great, and cheap to file. I've paid tax specialists in the past far more with worse results.
> I've paid tax specialists in the past far more with worse results.
This was the year I decided to compare freetaxusa with a paid professional. Maybe it's just that my taxes aren't complicated enough to warrant a pro, but I'm not making the same mistake again next year.
Re: IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would you know if you're going to take the standard deduction without doing your taxes? I'm fairly certain the federal government doesn't know about all my deductions.
The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form would be a huge efficiency gain. Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good.
> Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good.
Which makes sense in a lot of spheres where's there's obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. If the IRS is wrong, then there's effectively no penalty for them.
The government wants it both ways. People understandably have some apprehension about this.