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U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

theintercept.com

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Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#31

Post by the_optimist »

Bulk, high-resolution activity tracing by the government should be illegal. There is no justification for employing warfare-grade surveillance as standard operational protocol for non-combatant citizens. There is no basis for collecting and examining such data in search of criminality.

Results are highly subject to political whimsy. The government is inadvertently creating a platform for turn-key intimidation and extortion. The individuals broadly identified and targeted are those who are least likely to be engaged in crime.

This is the wrong approach. It is time to force our leadership back to the drawing board to identify and develop more sound approaches.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#32

Post by luma »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

[flagged]

I agree with your assertion that there is a big difference here, in that anti-abortion protestors are far more likely to resort to domestic terrorism to get their way.

Pro-choice protestors don't have a history of bombing health clinics, that's something reserved for the people you claim "take peaceful action". History has something quite different to say: https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack...

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#33

Post by falcolas »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

[flagged]

What do you think protests are? Coordinated congregation to push a specific point of view is protesting.

And, for an an emotional take, I’ve seen some pro birth protests and how they treat the out group. Peaceful my ass.

Screaming “whore” and “sinner” and “burn in hell” at women so angrily that they’re flinging spittle is not a fucking peaceful prayer circle.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#34

Post by tssva »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Pro-abortion protesters are not a thing. There are pro-choice protestors. There is long history of violence from anti-abortion movement including assaults and murders of clinic personnel & volunteers. Clinics have been physical damaged including being bombed.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#35

Post by keneda7 »

luma wrote: post #32
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

[flagged]

I agree with your assertion that there is a big difference here, in that anti-abortion protestors are far more likely to resort to domestic terrorism to get their way. Pro-choice protestors don't have a history of bombing health clinics, that's something reserved for the people you claim "take peaceful action". History has something quite different to say: https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack.…

According to the FBI director this is not true. Since Dobbs 70% of violence has been against pro life centers.

Skip to 1:45 in the video for the exact quote.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-life-centers-targeted-7...

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#36

Post by maerF0x0 »

the_optimist wrote: post #31

Bulk, high-resolution activity tracing by the government should be illegal. There is no justification for employing warfare-grade surveillance as standard operational protocol for non-combatant citizens. There is no basis for collecting and examining such data in search of criminality. Results are highly subject to political whimsy. The government is inadvertently creating a platform for turn-key intimidation and ext…

They keep going back to the drawing board and coming up with 2 cases:

1. Bulk surveillance for pattern recognition

2. Breaking cryptography so they can go directly to the source/plaintext

Perhaps we need to figure out some other ways to make the population resistant to crime. For example reducing poverty and increasing opportunity often leads to reduced crime, why not spend billions on pursuing lasting changes on that front?

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#37

Post by trasz4 »

rayiner wrote: post #25
trasz4 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

>Abortion is considered immoral

Not praying as often as one should is considered immoral too. But "immorality" is not binary, and abortion tends to be quite low on the scale. Especially early abortion, which is specific to one particular branch of Christianity.

>Abortion “rights” arises from a belief system

The same one that got us other human rights, like freedom of speech. It's called humanism. It's different from religions by not being made up.

Also, note the "life from conception" fringe is a relatively recent invention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_thought_o.... Protestantism generally kept the old beliefs instead of adapting the new idea.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#38

Post by Gunax »

adfgionionio wrote: post #23
landemva wrote: post #9

From the article, "the agency had cast such a broad surveillance net that large volumes of innocuous First Amendment-protected activity regularly got swept up as potential security threats." This is funded by unlimited federal deficit spending. Let's reduce their budgets.

The police are allowed to "surveil" protected speech, unless you want to ban them from reading the newspaper. I really don't see the issue. This is information people knowingly release to the public, so the cops are not spying on anyone. A protest is a potential security threat, which is why the cops always show up. I see no evidence this information was abused to try to prevent people from expressing their opinions.…

I think we need a term for 'taking public information and deriving nondisclosed information from it'. It isn't really spying, but it's more than just access.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, but I think a lot of the debate here is just people arguing the semantics of what's going on.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#39

Post by siftrics »

Scoundreller wrote: post #28
jonhohle wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going through the white house proposed budget this weekend and there are more than a few call outs (10-20%) that seem superfluous or like they should be handled by private industries as they seem constrained to benefit those private businesses. Government money also tends to raise all ships^H^H^H^H^Hprices, so many of the social welfare programs - tuition and home buying loans and assistance, for example - have…

> As someone on the hook for $116k in deficit, I’d be much happier to direct my tax dollars to eliminating debt and interest payments Our tax returns have a field at the bottom where you can offer to do just that with your tax refund. I suspect it costs them more in ink than the value of any takers. Always seemed like a “nonono, I didn’t mean to pay down the debt with my money!” kinda thing. “Ontario opportunities fu…

In the US, you can give extra money to reduce the deficit. You cannot redirect what you already owe so that it all goes towards reducing the deficit.

So I think your point "nonono, I didn’t mean to pay down the debt with my money!" is moot.

Re: U.S. Marshals Spied on Abortion Protesters Using Dataminr

#40

Post by vorpalhex »

luma wrote: post #32
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

[flagged]

I agree with your assertion that there is a big difference here, in that anti-abortion protestors are far more likely to resort to domestic terrorism to get their way. Pro-choice protestors don't have a history of bombing health clinics, that's something reserved for the people you claim "take peaceful action". History has something quite different to say: https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack.…

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pro-abortion-terrorists-...

No, both sides have a good history of bombings.

"My side bombs less" is also not a wonderful counterargument.

It would be preferable if the two sides could quietly engage in a melee battle somewhere away from bystanders. In the meantime, maybe we can avoid ideological battles on HN.

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