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How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

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Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#71

Post by powertower »

a_a_r_o_n wrote: post #38
arethuza wrote: post #8

Back in '97 I was the CTO of a VC funded startup. Within weeks of our funding closing a company we had been working with for about a year initiated litigation over an IP matter. Even though it was the company, and not me personally, who was being sued that time was the most stressful time of my life - the sheer injustice of it all left a deep scar on me. However, we had a good law firm and money in the bank - our law…

I used to jump at a very small skydiving operation. When the owner dropped his insurance, the lawsuits disappeared. No one wants a 1957 Cessna.

Were people dying at this operation? Or breaking their legs? Or...?

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#72

Post by jackalope »

Forced or bullied? It may seem like a small distinction, but it sounds like he backed down after a single threatening phone call, without calling their bluff.

It’s important to note that the film was based on one of Asimov’s short stories, “Reason”, but was not a direct interpretation. It was not titled “I, Robot”, and barring the inclusion of the laws of robotics, was almost wholly original.

If that's the case, then why not remove any Asimovian references, disavow any connection with "I, Robot" and complete the film?

Don't get me wrong, the studio behaved badly and this guy didn't deserve the treatment he received from them, but it sounds like there were perfectly acceptable options available that didn't require shutting down the project completely.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#73

Post by arethuza »

arethuza wrote: post #8

Back in '97 I was the CTO of a VC funded startup. Within weeks of our funding closing a company we had been working with for about a year initiated litigation over an IP matter. Even though it was the company, and not me personally, who was being sued that time was the most stressful time of my life - the sheer injustice of it all left a deep scar on me. However, we had a good law firm and money in the bank - our law…

One part of this story I had forgotten about - after roughly a couple of years the same company (and the very same people at the company) approached us again looking for advice about raising VC money in the UK (we were on our second round by then).

I remember showing the email to our CEO, who suggested that the best thing to do would be to quietly ignore their request....

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#74

Post by 454546546 »

pasbesoin wrote: post #65
vibrunazo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a pity the student didn't talk to a copyright > lawyer (with litigation experience) before caving. How much would that cost him in the US? And how likely is that the court would actually grant him the money? The link says "at court’s discretion". Has it actually ever happenned before?

I'll follow up by asking how a student is supposed to know all this? And I'll ask, where were the professor and the school's legal counsel? If the student didn't know to go to the latter, the professor should have guided him in this matter. The school should have served as an advocate for the student. They clearly failed.

>I'll follow up by asking how a student is supposed to know all this?

The lawyers are supposed to know all this. The student is supposed to ask around and find a lawyer.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#75

Post by jakejake »

What the studio lawyers did was typical and it stinks. This is a valuable story to be told. But i hate to say it, this guy would probably not have made it in the movie business as a director (if that is what his aspiration was).

First of all, having one failure and then giving up - that business is constant rejection and having to overcome difficulties with every project. Projects fall apart all the time. Lawsuits happen all the time. You have to stick out your neck financially over and over.

I'm not judging him, it's a crappy thing he went through, but if you want a career in the arts you have to be undeterred by situations like this.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#76

Post by dangrossman »

nate_meurer wrote: post #70
yardie wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it discourages people with a valid case and little money from filing the suit in the first place. So now if you think you've been wronged not only do you have to worry about winning you also have to worry about losing. Nothing is stopping the defending counsel from getting a team of high priced lawyers, verses the 1 you could afford, and stuffing you with the bill of not only your lawyer, but all of theirs. T…

The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit, and it baffles me that it has been used to actually argue against tort reform. The Hot Coffee film was produced by a plaintiffs lawyer, and presents little more than emotional appeals. As a group, plaintiffs lawyers hated the publicity originally given to the MacDonalds suit, so perhaps it makes sense that some of th…

> The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit

It's McDonalds, and I wonder if you know the actual facts of the case. McDonalds had received over 700 reports of burn victims from their coffee. They knew they were injuring people by the hundreds yet maintained policy that franchises should keep the coffee 40 degrees hotter than other establishments, a temperature so high it would cause 3rd degree burns in under 2 seconds.

Have you seen what that kind of burn looks like? Here's the plaintiff (NSFW image): http://neufeldlawfirm.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/st...

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#77

Post by bragh »

dangrossman wrote: post #76
nate_meurer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit, and it baffles me that it has been used to actually argue against tort reform. The Hot Coffee film was produced by a plaintiffs lawyer, and presents little more than emotional appeals. As a group, plaintiffs lawyers hated the publicity originally given to the MacDonalds suit, so perhaps it makes sense that some of th…

> The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit It's McDonalds, and I wonder if you know the actual facts of the case. McDonalds had received over 700 reports of burn victims from their coffee. They knew they were injuring people by the hundreds yet maintained policy that franchises should keep the coffee 40 degrees hotter than other establishments, a temperature…

Less people would moan about the McDonalds coffee lawsuit being example of a frivolous suit when shown that picture.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#78

Post by maxerickson »

Tichy wrote: post #45
hythloday wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loser pays a proportion of the winner's costs equal to the loser's costs (i.e. loser spends £100 in legal fees, winner spends £1500 in legal fees, loser has to pay £100 of the winner's costs, leaving the winner with £1400 to pay) has some nice properties.

Um, wouldn't that enable people to ruin people's lives at will? Just sue them over and over. Even if the claims have no merits, eventually they will be bankrupt.

I think part of the idea is that if you sue someone and nothing comes of it, you have to pay their fees.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#79

Post by jakejake »

fakelvis wrote: post #13

This is an incredibly ridiculous story. This student is exactly the type of person Hollywood should be nurturing: a creative student with vision, perusing his creative 'dream' and not letting his limited means get in the way of his vision. It's a real pity that this happened, and a lost opportunity for the film industry. It could have been simple for them to take this as an opportunity and make something great out it…

Unfortunately there are already hundreds of thousands of creative people in Hollywood trying to claw their way into the business. Hollywood doesn't need to nurture anybody. I'm not saying that it's fair or a good thing - it's just the reality. You have to accept and deal with that reality if you want to work in that business.

I would applaud this guy if he put his movie up for downloading but despite having rights to the material he doesn't want to take a financial risk. Making movies is a gambler's business. I hope he changes his mind - i would check out the movie.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#80

Post by nate_meurer »

dangrossman wrote: post #76
nate_meurer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit, and it baffles me that it has been used to actually argue against tort reform. The Hot Coffee film was produced by a plaintiffs lawyer, and presents little more than emotional appeals. As a group, plaintiffs lawyers hated the publicity originally given to the MacDonalds suit, so perhaps it makes sense that some of th…

> The MacDonalds hot coffee case should rightly be viewed as a textbook example of a frivolous lawsuit It's McDonalds, and I wonder if you know the actual facts of the case. McDonalds had received over 700 reports of burn victims from their coffee. They knew they were injuring people by the hundreds yet maintained policy that franchises should keep the coffee 40 degrees hotter than other establishments, a temperature…

McDonalds received 700 complaints out of 10 billion cups of coffee served. There will always be some number of people complaining regardless of the temperature, just like there will always be people foolish enough to put said coffee between their legs and fiddle with the lid. How many people do you suppose complained that their coffee is served too cool? If you say none I'm tempted to call you naive.

McDonalds coffee was not "40 degrees hotter" than other establishments. This came from her attorney during the trial and it's laughably false. Out of thin air it seems, he invented the axiom that coffee should never be served hotter than 60 deg C. McDonalds' corporate policy was, and still is, to serve coffee at around 80 C.

My coffee maker brews at 95-100 C. Your's does too. At all other times, your coffee maker maintains a temp of at least 85 C. Guess who else does this? Fucking everybody. The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be served at around 80 C. Starbucks, Daz Bog, Peaberry all serve coffee at or around... you guessed it: 80 C. Tell you what, go to a Starbucks and see what kind of reaction you get when you tell them they should lower the temperature of their coffee to help keep you safe. Remind them that you just might be stupid enough to squeeze the cup between your legs.

Stella Liebeck put a cup of hot coffee between her legs, and acted surprised that 1.) it spilled, and 2.) it burned. The arguments at trial were a textbook example of farce. Her lawyer monkeyed around about exactly how many seconds it takes for coffee at various temperatures to cause a burn. All the while dancing around the unspoken notion that Stella Liebeck did some kind of mental calculation based on some assumption of the temperature of McDonalds coffee, and rationally concluded that putting it between her legs was unlikely to cause pain or injury if it spilled.

Trying to argue your point using a picture of her legs is nothing more than an appeal to emotion. Yes, that burn looks bad. Yes, it's too bad she chose to put a cup of hot coffee between her legs in order to fiddle with the top.

How about this: I'll show you a picture of my daughter's friend after she accidentally stabbed herself in the eye with a paring knife, and then you can politely agree that the knife maker should be sued for negligence.

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