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Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

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81–90 of 112 posts

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#81
I've worked a bit in this sector, and here are my observations:

1. Solar Home sets range from $5 flashlights with solarcells to $150 home lights+panels+phonecharger+radio to $400 sets with TV. The more expensive sets are usually paid off over time.

2. The impact of even the smallest flashlights on human wellbeing is enormous. You may imagine a village in the third world has a cosy campfire. But in truth it is usually too much effort to collect the wood, so people live in the dark half the day. The mentioned kerosine lamps are already a luxury to many. Having a flashlight so you can spot the snakes and spiders when you go outside at night to have a pee, or make sure you do not slip is life saving. Having a 100lumen light in your bedroom so you can see faintly your wife or husband while you have sex is amazing.

3. So this is about improving well-being. Not industrialising. These solar home systems do not significantly make people wealthier or more likely to become wealthy. It just makes them 20% happier. You need significantly more and cheaper power to start a factory. For that, "Commercial and Industrial solar" is a big deal. Where companies in India/Africa/Indonesia buy $10-30k worth of solar panels + battery + inverter to make sure their factories are always powered. Cost of up-front capital and competing with subsidised energy makes this not always a no-brainer.

4. Grid expansion is... expensive. I do not think we'll see the grid covering everywhere by the end of this century. And microgrids are great, but also expensive. How expensive? Consider that connecting your house to the grid in a developed country costs about $10k. Companies have been able to connect villages under the grid for about $1500 per house. Microgrids (with all their limitations) can sometimes do it for $700. If you consider that a household makes anywhere between $100 and $700 per year, then you see that the only way to be able to do this is with heavy subsidies (development aid) from foreign countries. And then you still need to pay for the actual power and maintain the grid. If that costs $300/household/year, and the household makes less per year, then your economics go nowhere.

One more thing: A related problem that affects the same population is that of clean cooking. Poor people (women) cook on wood or charcoal instead of electricity or gas. Arguably this is the worst problem in the world (yes worse than war, natural disasters, HIV, Malaria and all other diseases together) as millions of people die from it each year. Solutions are similar: Selling small gas stoves.

Tl dr; The real problem with energy poverty is that the people it is trying to reach are unimaginably poor. Way poorer than that great grandfather of yours that grew up in poverty. Solve poverty and you solve energy.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#82
I would really like a setup where my roof top solar panels makes me self-sufficient for energy needs, but the key hurdle is battery storage.

In a town house in Netherlands, for a family of three, I use on an average 250 kWh of electricity (excluding heating by gas) per month.

I’m getting solar panels installed in my roof to the tune of 10 x 420wp panels expected to generate 280kWh of electricity per month.

My primary concern about batteries is the fire risk. Even if I were to take on the risk and have a battery bank in the garden shed, they’d essentially give me a buffer of about half a day’s worth of buffer. This makes it really not worth taking on the risk for such a little benefit, and continue to rely on the grid as my battery.

I’m waiting for that energy storage breakthrough that would allow me to store the excess energy generated in the summer for use in the winter. May be producing hydrogen safely in the backyard or have a tank of compressed air below the garden or some kind of flow battery that can be buried under the garden shed etc.

Hopefully it comes to life while I still make money and have the interest to do all this :-)

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unstated statistic in this article is that Indonesia's reliance on coal has grown from 20% of national energy production to 40% of energy production over the 2005-2020 period, which accounts for most of that 85% to 97% growth factor. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-clings-coa... The slow growth of renewables particularly in remote locations is certainly a good thing, but the actual nation-wide p…

Which makes this a great time to observe that electricity != clean. That’s a non-sensical conclusion because electricity doesnt have the capacity to be clean nor dirty. Its a storage format. Stored energy in gas just sitting in your gas tank doesnt really emit either. It’s ridiculous to conclude energy is clean by simply ignoring its emissions. Replacing an ICE vehicle with electricity isn’t necessarily lowering emis…

It is fine, even if all the energy is created by fossil fuel plants:

1) Large power plants + transmission + charging your electric car + driving your wheels is usually more efficient than small ICE engines.

2) Even if the grid is dirty, if many cars are electric, once we make the grid cleaner, those cars automatically become cleaner. Otherwise, we would have to replace grid power generation & cars both.

3) Power plants are (usually) far from population centers, ICE cars spew exhaust everywhere, all the time.

Electrification of cars is a net good. All the time.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#84

I would really like a setup where my roof top solar panels makes me self-sufficient for energy needs, but the key hurdle is battery storage. In a town house in Netherlands, for a family of three, I use on an average 250 kWh of electricity (excluding heating by gas) per month. I’m getting solar panels installed in my roof to the tune of 10 x 420wp panels expected to generate 280kWh of electricity per month. My primary…

Don't really see why people with solar that are connected to the grid actually want to install batteries at all. There's the cost, fire risk, and just the simple alternative of selling excess production for free/discounted grid usage at other times. You're still saving the planet to the same degree, and doing it more cheaply too, with fewer things to go wrong.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#85

I would really like a setup where my roof top solar panels makes me self-sufficient for energy needs, but the key hurdle is battery storage. In a town house in Netherlands, for a family of three, I use on an average 250 kWh of electricity (excluding heating by gas) per month. I’m getting solar panels installed in my roof to the tune of 10 x 420wp panels expected to generate 280kWh of electricity per month. My primary…

Don't really see why people with solar that are connected to the grid actually want to install batteries at all. There's the cost, fire risk, and just the simple alternative of selling excess production for free/discounted grid usage at other times. You're still saving the planet to the same degree, and doing it more cheaply too, with fewer things to go wrong.

"Don't really see why people with solar that are connected to the grid actually want to install batteries at all."

Power load smoothing, emergency backup. I been through a couple of natural disasters, and you quickly realize storage of power is just as key as power generation.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's half the monthly minimum wage, most people here make even less, and everyone has at least a few kids to feed. Also everything is more expensive because it's so remote. There are no roads so everything has to be brought here by airplane or boat. If you order something from Amazon (the website) to the Amazon (the rainforest) shipping is at quite expensive and then there's import fees too...

Uh huh, and how expensive, heavy and bulky was the generator and the fuel they have to constantly feed it? If they need/want more than just lighting, then fair enough. But for just lighting, rektide's proposal blows a generator out of the water.

Most houses don't have generators. Maybe I should have been more clear.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#87

I would really like a setup where my roof top solar panels makes me self-sufficient for energy needs, but the key hurdle is battery storage. In a town house in Netherlands, for a family of three, I use on an average 250 kWh of electricity (excluding heating by gas) per month. I’m getting solar panels installed in my roof to the tune of 10 x 420wp panels expected to generate 280kWh of electricity per month. My primary…

Don't really see why people with solar that are connected to the grid actually want to install batteries at all. There's the cost, fire risk, and just the simple alternative of selling excess production for free/discounted grid usage at other times. You're still saving the planet to the same degree, and doing it more cheaply too, with fewer things to go wrong.

In the UK feed in tariff is terrible. There's almost no point at the moment in generating more than you use because you get so little for it.

Some of the biggest suppliers are only paying ~4p to feed in compared to the average price of 34p per kWh.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unstated statistic in this article is that Indonesia's reliance on coal has grown from 20% of national energy production to 40% of energy production over the 2005-2020 period, which accounts for most of that 85% to 97% growth factor. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-clings-coa... The slow growth of renewables particularly in remote locations is certainly a good thing, but the actual nation-wide p…

Which makes this a great time to observe that electricity != clean. That’s a non-sensical conclusion because electricity doesnt have the capacity to be clean nor dirty. Its a storage format. Stored energy in gas just sitting in your gas tank doesnt really emit either. It’s ridiculous to conclude energy is clean by simply ignoring its emissions. Replacing an ICE vehicle with electricity isn’t necessarily lowering emis…

> Replacing an ICE vehicle with electricity isn’t necessarily lowering emissions. Its entirely dependent on how the electricity is generated.

This is wrong, however a common misconception.

There are really two reasons you would want to replace an ICE with an EV. One is that electricity can be green, but the other is that an EV is a lot more efficient. Your ICE is not just burning fossil fuels, it also uses them mostly to produce hot air and only a fraction of the energy ends up in turning the wheel. ICEs are so inefficient that it's practically impossible to have grid electricity so dirty that the ICE would win.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really see why people with solar that are connected to the grid actually want to install batteries at all. There's the cost, fire risk, and just the simple alternative of selling excess production for free/discounted grid usage at other times. You're still saving the planet to the same degree, and doing it more cheaply too, with fewer things to go wrong.

In the UK feed in tariff is terrible. There's almost no point at the moment in generating more than you use because you get so little for it. Some of the biggest suppliers are only paying ~4p to feed in compared to the average price of 34p per kWh.

Arguably the UK/NL isn't so great for individual solar production anyway. But there are still good options: buy from a on/offshore wind provider, hydro too.
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