All the arguments against EVs are wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#121

Post by incomingpain » Mon, May 15, 2023, 12:08 PM UTC

sowbug wrote: post #9

I've been going in range-anxiety circles with my dad for over 10 years. He insists he needs a car that can take him hundreds of miles into the wilderness for camping. I ask whether he's ever done that. He says no, but he intends to. He's 84. EV manufacturers should offer the 500-mile-range vehicle, but as an option. Pay $X for a car with 250 miles range, and an extra $20,000 for another 250 miles range. Most people w…

My dad is exactly the same. Range anxiety!!! so I show him the map of level 3 chargers in north america and ask if he's driving to the arctic circle or something. Obviously not.

Now 'his friend' bought a f150 lightning and towed max weight 100km and it used 200km range! So his friend returned the truck right away!

The actual thing happening is proving that arguing with anyone is literally pointless. You can never convince anyone of anything. You can never teach anyone anything.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#122

Post by kcplate » Mon, May 15, 2023, 1:16 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #17

sowbug wrote: post #9

I've been going in range-anxiety circles with my dad for over 10 years. He insists he needs a car that can take him hundreds of miles into the wilderness for camping. I ask whether he's ever done that. He says no, but he intends to. He's 84. EV manufacturers should offer the 500-mile-range vehicle, but as an option. Pay $X for a car with 250 miles range, and an extra $20,000 for another 250 miles range. Most people w…

I couldn’t convince my parents to get a plug-in hybrid Prius (to replace their old Prius) because it didn’t have a spare tire in the back. They ended up getting a hybrid Camry, which gets much, much worse mileage for their use case. It’s still pretty good in the grand scheme of things, but it was silly that they wouldn’t consider a car without a spare tire considering where they drive and that they have AAA.

On average I have a flat tire probably once every 3 years and if the difference is being able to change a tire with 30 mins of effort and be back to wherever I am going plus slightly decreased MPG vs waiting a couple of hours for a tow truck, being towed to a tire place, waiting a couple of hours for a new tire plus somewhat better MPG. I’d go with the Camry too.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#123

Post by kcplate » Mon, May 15, 2023, 1:20 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #107

_hypx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just repeating the marketing spiel of battery car makers. Of course, it would be very convenient for them if the problems of the competition are insurmountable and the upside totally pointless. There’s enormous incentive for them to convince people of that. The basic problem here is that fuel cells EVs literally are EVs. They work in incredibly similar ways. Any sort of fundamental analysis would lead you to…

A lot of driving is local, BEVs excel at that since people can charge at home. Hydrogen has a chance in long distance trucking and maybe aviation, where the lightweight energy density is a big win, although they’ll need to do something about volume for aviation. Unless we figure out fusion, producing hydrogen is going to primarily come from hydrocarbons, mainly natural gas. For Europe, that means they need to get it…

> A lot of driving is local, BEVs excel at that since people can charge at home

Some people can charge at home.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#124

Post by mnkmnk » Mon, May 15, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

sebow wrote: post #37

Here's the biggest and most important reason (besides the obvious ones like grids, energy, etc.): most people >cannot Idealists should often take their heads out of their asses and understand most people don't have their privilege, ironically the most privileged ones screech about privilege while ignoring their own. Go ahead and tell developing countries to switch to EV-only, setting them back at least 10 years in te…

It is not just that most people can’t afford an EV, but they don’t have home charging! The article doesn’t even mention this problem and just assumes that everyone has that privilege. Most people in developing countries park their cars roadside. And many people live on rent in apartments. The owner and the renter, neither want to pay for the charger installation.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#125

Post by funnymony » Mon, May 15, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

viernullvier wrote: post #55

funnymony wrote: post #28

Lets say EV cut co2 emissions by factor of 100x for each km traveled. Lets say number of cars in total follows exponential progression, 5% growth per year. It follows that after 100 years due to growth co2 gets back to original level. (Log100/log1.05=94) EVs are required bandaid, but degrowth will come eventually. (Possibly due to climate change supply will decrease and so will consumption)

Those estimates are unrealistic regardless of any potential degrowth scenario. You'll run out of drivers and/or roads way before the 100 year mark.

I must concede: 1000x increase in driver count is too far fetched.

Though if forever growth is assumed, and goal post is moved to co2 total instead of per km, then some options exist to eat up that 1000x saving: Owning more than one vehicle per person, buying new automobile more frequently, moving to bigger, better and powerfuler cars.