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Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

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Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#71

Post by sgk284 »

dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

Author of the guide here. I attempt to address this in the "Why do we need prompt engineering?"[^1] section.

> ... we used an analogy of prompts as the “source code” that a language model “interprets”. Prompt engineering is the art of writing prompts to get the language model to do what we want it to do – just like software engineering is the art of writing source code to get computers to do what we want them to do.

Borrowing from Oxford Dictionary, the definition of "engineering" is:

> the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that "prompt engineering" falls squarely in the realm of "technology concerned with the use of a machine".

[^1]: https://github.com/brexhq/prompt-engineering#why-do-we-need-...

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#72

Post by rpastuszak »

dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

If programming is alchemy, then prompt engineering is more akin to demonic conjurations (communicating with demons):

- the Demon knows almost everything, but it can/will lie and trick your bullshit filters so well

- then, there's the old trope that you-the conjurer might be able to trick the demon and avoid paying the price for its services (prompt injections) †

(dust off your Ars Goetia, my friend)

But, in all seriousness, here's one definition I like:

    engineering:
    the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and *structures*.
I read structures in a more generic sense here (e.g. structures of information). Prompt engineering requires skill, e.g. understanding how transformers on a basic level will make you better at it, but the nature of work is still fuzzy. It's more intuition guided by some general understanding of the system.

I think prompt design would be a better term.

Words shift their meanings and language is a river, so I'm ok with engineering being used this way.

I do have a bigger issue with using AI as an umbrella term, because it seems misleading on purpose. The new meaning is a product of a bunch of people trying to make it sound magical so more money changes hands. That's active disinformation and it's making us collectively slightly more stupid.

† a rooster can be an efficient mode of transport should you wish to breach the contract yourself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Twardowski)

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#73

Post by rpastuszak »

jollybot wrote: post #70
dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

Engineering, the action of working artfully to bring something about.

What's the difference between engineering and design?

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#74

Post by dakom »

sgk284 wrote: post #71
dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

Author of the guide here. I attempt to address this in the "Why do we need prompt engineering?"[^1] section. > ... we used an analogy of prompts as the “source code” that a language model “interprets”. Prompt engineering is the art of writing prompts to get the language model to do what we want it to do – just like software engineering is the art of writing source code to get computers to do what we want them to do.…

That's extremely broad. I know how to push the buttons on my washing machine. So now I'm a laundering engineer?

Maybe the answer is "yes", but I think it's a bit silly, and detracts from the engineering work that goes into building the machine, i.e. the work of understanding the connections and flow of electricity from button press to pumps and gears turning.

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#75

Post by kqr »

sgk284 wrote: post #71
dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

Author of the guide here. I attempt to address this in the "Why do we need prompt engineering?"[^1] section. > ... we used an analogy of prompts as the “source code” that a language model “interprets”. Prompt engineering is the art of writing prompts to get the language model to do what we want it to do – just like software engineering is the art of writing source code to get computers to do what we want them to do.…

> > the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures.

> I think it's pretty reasonable to say that "prompt engineering" falls squarely in the realm of "use of a machine".

It's not just "use of a machine", but rather "the branch of science and technology concerned with the use of machines.

That said, I don't have a stake in this battle. I just wanted to point out that it's easy to forget the earlier context when looking at lists like that!

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#76

Post by fsloth »

dakom wrote: post #74
sgk284 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the guide here. I attempt to address this in the "Why do we need prompt engineering?"[^1] section. > ... we used an analogy of prompts as the “source code” that a language model “interprets”. Prompt engineering is the art of writing prompts to get the language model to do what we want it to do – just like software engineering is the art of writing source code to get computers to do what we want them to do.…

That's extremely broad. I know how to push the buttons on my washing machine. So now I'm a laundering engineer? Maybe the answer is "yes", but I think it's a bit silly, and detracts from the engineering work that goes into building the machine, i.e. the work of understanding the connections and flow of electricity from button press to pumps and gears turning.

The person who shoveled coal to a steam locomotive was called a railroad engineer. I guess the distinguishing feature here is how much capital is tied to the process and how much value it creates - not how intellectually demanding it is as such.

If you had a button that switched on a thousand washing machines at a time I guess one could flirt with the title "washing engineer".

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#77

Post by mattlutze »

dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

I agree with the tongue-in-cheek and the serious question. I was asking myself this just yesterday.

Britanica's definition is nice (the application of science to the optimum conversion of the resources of nature to the uses of humankind), but the base of all of them is creating from science.

I'm not sure what the researched-and-validated science is behind these prompting guides. They feel like creative works and really feel like they deserve a title highlighting this.

In a related thought, I feel like we might see creative titles growing in respect over the coming years, as humans look for ways to differentiate themselves from knowledgeable machines.

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#78

Post by bryanrasmussen »

fsloth wrote: post #76
dakom wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's extremely broad. I know how to push the buttons on my washing machine. So now I'm a laundering engineer? Maybe the answer is "yes", but I think it's a bit silly, and detracts from the engineering work that goes into building the machine, i.e. the work of understanding the connections and flow of electricity from button press to pumps and gears turning.

The person who shoveled coal to a steam locomotive was called a railroad engineer. I guess the distinguishing feature here is how much capital is tied to the process and how much value it creates - not how intellectually demanding it is as such. If you had a button that switched on a thousand washing machines at a time I guess one could flirt with the title "washing engineer".

>The person who shoveled coal to a steam locomotive

was generally called the stoker. Also heard fireman but I find that confusing.

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#79

Post by casey2 »

dakom wrote: post #65

Why are we calling this "engineering"? Isn't engineering the application of science to solve problems? (math, definitive logic, etc.) Maybe one day we'll have instruments that let us reason about the connections between prompts and the exact state of the AI, so that we can understand the mechanics of causation, but until then, I would not think that being good at asking questions is "engineering" Are most 10 year old…

Did you even read the article? You are writing programs whose output will be put in hidden prompts. Nobody is claiming that users are prompt engineers. Math is a dying art, programming is a science.

Re: Brex’s Prompt Engineering Guide

#80

Post by sgk284 »

dakom wrote: post #74
sgk284 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the guide here. I attempt to address this in the "Why do we need prompt engineering?"[^1] section. > ... we used an analogy of prompts as the “source code” that a language model “interprets”. Prompt engineering is the art of writing prompts to get the language model to do what we want it to do – just like software engineering is the art of writing source code to get computers to do what we want them to do.…

That's extremely broad. I know how to push the buttons on my washing machine. So now I'm a laundering engineer? Maybe the answer is "yes", but I think it's a bit silly, and detracts from the engineering work that goes into building the machine, i.e. the work of understanding the connections and flow of electricity from button press to pumps and gears turning.

Tweaked my comment a little bit to clarify.

Surely we'd agree that not everyone who uses software is a software engineer, but writing software is generally agreed upon as "software engineering". If you consider my comment as a whole, and the linked document, then the application of the definition makes sense.

Large Language Models are incredibly similar to black-box non-deterministic interpreters. And prompt engineering feels very much like writing code for said interpreter.

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