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How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

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Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#41

Post by pavel_lishin »

hobin wrote: post #19
edanm wrote: post #12

Question for any lawyers present: If a lawyer threatens to "ruin your life with litigation", etc., can't that be construed as a threat/bribe? I would think it would be illegal to call a student, who doesn't know any better, and threaten to ruin their life, especially if the threats you're making aren't actually true. In any case, the obvious next step in the student's situation is to contact a lawyer, and see if ther…

I don't know whether such extreme talk is legal, no, but it's quite common for lawyers to talk in this way. Remember those letters you got when you forgot to pay for something on time? You know, the ones with a nice little addition saying "if you do not pay before X, we will be forced to take legal action." It's the same thing, whether they will take action or not. The intent behind the statement is 'this will make i…

> It's the same thing

Not exactly. The debt letter states, "If you do not fulfill our legal contract, we will pursue legal and established means to come to a resolution."

The lawyer threat states, "I am turning a business issue into a personal one, and I will abuse the law."

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#42

Post by paulhauggis »

nextparadigms wrote: post #31
moylan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when it comes to the little guy been screwed over by the ones with the cash to pay lawyers i don't think the usa has any monopoly in this area. my favourite case of the big guy losing despite the resources they bring to bear is the mclibel case ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_Case )

The loser paying for the winner's costs might alleviate the problem a little.

I'm not so sure. If I have 100 million and I'm suing a student and lose..my costs might be what $30,000? $50,000? and like the MPAA lawyer said, it might take 10 years.

I reminds me of the story from "a flash of genius". Yeah, he got a ton of money in the end, but he lost everything in his life that was important to him over the course of 10 years.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#43

Post by vibrunazo »

ssp wrote: post #15

There are some simple things that could be done to protect against this kind of abuse: - Loser pays the winner's costs, but capped such that the loser won't be bankrupted. This effectively means that when a big company loses, they get to pay for all of the trial, but individuals can still lose without being totally doomed. - A judge could be allowed to grant "free trial" if he thought the case had merit and one of th…

Doesn't something like the loser paying winner's cost already exist?

I've heard about it, but I don't know much about law. My lawyer once told me, here in my country, it was possible for the winner to ask the loser for compensation, but that had many "ifs". But I have no idea how it works in the US. Does it exists at all? Anyone with legal experience could shed a light?

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#44

Post by icehawk »

jsnell wrote: post #39
setrofim_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That said, I don't think this is an excuse to take 'revenge' on these companies, "one download at a time". If this isn't, I don't know what is. Note that the author was talking about the fragment of his own film that he uploaded (and subsequently took down). "one download at a time" is referring to the downloads of that fragment (which, by the other party's admission, he had the right to shoot, and holds the copyrig…

That seems like a retcon. He originally posted a different telling of the same story under the title "This is Why I Pirate". That's gone now, the only trace is a pointer to this new version: http://www.reddit.com/r/SOPA/comments/poqvn/this_is_why_i_pi...

This is the original:

http://pastebin.com/0gRzqBxq

Edit: Formatting

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#45

Post by Tichy »

hythloday wrote: post #20
ssp wrote: post #15

There are some simple things that could be done to protect against this kind of abuse: - Loser pays the winner's costs, but capped such that the loser won't be bankrupted. This effectively means that when a big company loses, they get to pay for all of the trial, but individuals can still lose without being totally doomed. - A judge could be allowed to grant "free trial" if he thought the case had merit and one of th…

Loser pays a proportion of the winner's costs equal to the loser's costs (i.e. loser spends £100 in legal fees, winner spends £1500 in legal fees, loser has to pay £100 of the winner's costs, leaving the winner with £1400 to pay) has some nice properties.

Um, wouldn't that enable people to ruin people's lives at will? Just sue them over and over. Even if the claims have no merits, eventually they will be bankrupt.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#47

Post by scott_s »

paulnelligan wrote: post #11

This is exactly why SOPA / ACTA et al must be stopped. If this happened me, in 2012, I would go straight onto kickstarter to get donations for the legal fees and fight these dickheads tooth and nail.

If this happened me, in 2012, I would go straight onto kickstarter to get donations for the legal fees and fight these dickheads tooth and nail.

You don't know what you will do until you're actually presented with the choice. It's easy to say such things when your only emotion is outrage, because you read about the story happening to someone else. It's not as easy when you also have abject fear of financial ruin.

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#48

Post by dctoedt »

Some observations:

1. If the studio had filed a lawsuit, there's a very good chance that, after seeing the Asimov estate's permission, the judge would have quickly tossed the case on summary judgment --- and quite possibly awarded the student his attorneys' fees under section 505 of the Copyright Act,[1] as happened recently in several of the Righthaven copyright-troll cases.[2]

2. A copyright lawyer might have been willing, for little or no money, to explain the facts of life to the studio lawyer on behalf of the student. The student then might have been able to respond to the studio lawyer (with utmost politeness, of course), "do what you gotta do." He could then have started making his movie and waited to see what the studio did.

3. It's likely that any lawsuit by the studio would have been quickly resolved one way or another, without much in the way of legal expense:

• If the student had won quickly on summary judgment, the odds are that his lawyer would have been paid by the judge.

• If the student had found he wasn't going to win quickly on summary judgment, then he could have caved to avoid further expense. The odds are that the studio would have gone along --- and might even have been willing to pay the student's legal fees just to get rid of the matter.

4. Either way, both the student and his lawyer would have gotten at least some reputational benefit from the resulting publicity.

5. Heck, they could have proposed settling the case along the lines that Southwest Airline's CEO settled a trademark dispute years ago over the term "Just Plane Smart": Herb Kelleher arm-wrestled the other side's CEO for charity, resulting in good PR for both sides.[3]

6. All this assumes, of course, that the article accurately states all the relevant facts. Lawyers know from hard experience that this always has to be confirmed.

[1] http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/505

[2] http://www.copyrighttrademarkmatters.com/2011/11/01/righthav...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#.22Just_Plan...

[Edited for style]

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#49

Post by vibrunazo »

dctoedt wrote: post #48

Some observations: 1. If the studio had filed a lawsuit, there's a very good chance that, after seeing the Asimov estate's permission, the judge would have quickly tossed the case on summary judgment --- and quite possibly awarded the student his attorneys' fees under section 505 of the Copyright Act,[1] as happened recently in several of the Righthaven copyright-troll cases.[2] 2. A copyright lawyer might have been…

  > It's a pity the student didn't talk to a copyright
  > lawyer (with litigation experience) before caving.
How much would that cost him in the US?

And how likely is that the court would actually grant him the money? The link says "at court’s discretion". Has it actually ever happenned before?

Re: How a big movie studio (unfairly) forced a student to give up his senior thesis

#50

Post by kamjam »

vibrunazo wrote: post #49
dctoedt wrote: post #48

Some observations: 1. If the studio had filed a lawsuit, there's a very good chance that, after seeing the Asimov estate's permission, the judge would have quickly tossed the case on summary judgment --- and quite possibly awarded the student his attorneys' fees under section 505 of the Copyright Act,[1] as happened recently in several of the Righthaven copyright-troll cases.[2] 2. A copyright lawyer might have been…

> It's a pity the student didn't talk to a copyright > lawyer (with litigation experience) before caving. How much would that cost him in the US? And how likely is that the court would actually grant him the money? The link says "at court’s discretion". Has it actually ever happenned before?

If he was at university then surely there was a clued up professor there who could have given him all the advice he would have needed.
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