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Let's End Adolescence

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Re: Let's End Adolescence

#131

Post by crabapple »

dc2k08 wrote: post #100

they take away a quarter of my life (av age of death 75) holding me back and forcing me to learn for tests things that i dont want to know. i like volcanoes. i know how they work. i dont need to be tested on their intricities. finally i get a chance at a college education and choose something that i hope better gels. if it doesnt its back to step one. if i succeed, im most likely stuck in a 9-6'er at a job that will…

they take away a quarter of my life (av age of death 75) holding me back and forcing me to learn for tests things that i dont want to know.

then drop the fuck out! go work at ford. see you in twenty years.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#132

Post by [deleted] »

run4yourlives wrote: post #70
qaexl wrote: post #52

I agree with Newt Gingrich's assessment of the problem. However, I don't like this solution, particularly within the context of http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/21/magazines/fortune/talent_col... (warning, very long article) and http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=203... Gingrich is right in that the institution is a failure. However, his proposed solutions merely reinforces those institution. A big…

If the child has gone through all the effort of completing high school at 13, why - under your model - is the parent deciding what he/she should do after that? Shouldn't the child determine which area of study they would like to pursue?

[deleted]

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#133

Post by crabapple »

mynameishere wrote: post #24
Dilpil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason republicans so frequently tout this line is because they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of education. Newt and company believe that education is essentially career training, and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals. Industry does not want to simply hire people who know exactly how to…

and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology I'm pretty sure that Gingrich who is a professor, and every other republican who has ever considered the question in any way, recognizes the use and purpose of calculus and biology. But don't let reason get in the way of your mindless contempt. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals No, it isn't, unless…

not the ability to quote Chomsky.

if you had a real education you would know that chomsky's initial ground-breaking work was in language structure, and his work is used widely in compsci texts on automaton theory

so you basically just got fucked by your own defense of ignorance

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#134

Post by crabapple »

tdavis wrote: post #4

While I wholeheartedly agree that there are many things wrong with "kids these days," completely abolishing adolescence would... what's a good word here... suck! Look, I did my fair share of dumb stuff when I was younger, most of which was done in the name of boredom. But what's the alternative here? "Happy 13th birthday, son, now go get a job!"? If high STD and drug use rates tell us anything, it's that these young…

If high STD and drug use rates tell us anything

it tells newt nothing, because stats actually run contrary to his assumption. drug use and teen pregnancy are not rising, they are falling

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#135

Post by qaexl »

run4yourlives wrote: post #70
qaexl wrote: post #52

I agree with Newt Gingrich's assessment of the problem. However, I don't like this solution, particularly within the context of http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/21/magazines/fortune/talent_col... (warning, very long article) and http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=203... Gingrich is right in that the institution is a failure. However, his proposed solutions merely reinforces those institution. A big…

If the child has gone through all the effort of completing high school at 13, why - under your model - is the parent deciding what he/she should do after that? Shouldn't the child determine which area of study they would like to pursue?

If the 13-year-old already has his heart set on something, I'm not going to stop him. But I suspect, at least with the first generation, they're going to screw around ... just like the first two or three years of college. Chances are good that if the area of study isn't something he wants to work with, he'll figure it out fast and get on with working on something else.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#136

Post by run4yourlives »

qaexl wrote: post #135
run4yourlives wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the child has gone through all the effort of completing high school at 13, why - under your model - is the parent deciding what he/she should do after that? Shouldn't the child determine which area of study they would like to pursue?

If the 13-year-old already has his heart set on something, I'm not going to stop him. But I suspect, at least with the first generation, they're going to screw around ... just like the first two or three years of college. Chances are good that if the area of study isn't something he wants to work with, he'll figure it out fast and get on with working on something else.

I would think that screwing around for a few years is exactly what you would want a 13 year old to do.

Like you said, better finding your passions at 16 then at 22. Finding your passions though is an essential part of life and shouldn't be taken as "screwing around".

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#137

Post by omouse »

hugh wrote: post #125
omouse wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. Period. Even the relatively "creative" jobs like software engineering want a fundamental skill set and raw intelligence, not the ability to quote Chomsky. Right, but the people who have the ability to quote Chomsky may be able to transfer that skill and quote Knuth or Sedgewick instead.

Which isn't a useful skill either. I want someone who can work like Knuth, not someone who can quote Knuth. Knuth didn't become Knuth by quoting people like Knuth.

If you can quote Knuth, there is a a large chance that you'll be able to understand what you just quoted and be able to apply it.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#138

Post by bokonist »

hugh wrote: post #124
bokonist wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option: Abolish Congress and the presidency. I mean, what have they done for you lately? Can you name a single good deed they've done in the past 30 years? Use some sort of board of trustees to select the Supreme Court justices and the Joint Chiefs. Perhaps this board of trustees would be selected by existing trustees, or perhaps we could use something like the Venetian lottery system ( http://unenumerated.blogsp…

I mean, what have they done for you lately? Can you name a single good deed they've done in the past 30 years? Luckily, the job of the government isn't to do good deeds -- it's to hold onto power in order to stop even worse people from getting it. The purpose of democracy isn't to get the best people into power, it's to stop the worst people from getting into power.

I would welcome a government that did absolutely nothing except stop bad guys from getting into power. Unfortunately, Congress thinks its job is to pass "legislation" and it does so in vast quantities. This has piled up over the decades covering the entire country in a gray legislative goo. If abolishing Congress is too big of step, how about changing the rules so that any new law requires a 70% majority? Or maybe even a 90% majority?

I'd also note that democracy is altogether a failure at preventing the worst people from getting into power. Some of histories worst tyrants from history have come to power through party politics.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#139

Post by justindz »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #96
nir wrote: post #6

The 3 stage process of childhood - adolescence - adulthood is already irrelevant in many affluent Western countries, but what was removed isn't adolescence but adulthood. Many 40 year olds manage their lives as teenagers (look at the low birth rate in western Europe, or high divorce rate in the US) and vice versa - teenagers build $15b (if you believe it ;)) companies.

It goes a lot deeper than a few mismanaged lives. The disregard for personal responsibility and the subsequent politics that result will get much worse as generation x then y come of age.

Every generation thinks the next generation is lazy, shiftless, immoral and will destroy the world. It's been happening for a while. The worrying, not the destroying.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#140

Post by justindz »

bokonist wrote: post #138
hugh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what have they done for you lately? Can you name a single good deed they've done in the past 30 years? Luckily, the job of the government isn't to do good deeds -- it's to hold onto power in order to stop even worse people from getting it. The purpose of democracy isn't to get the best people into power, it's to stop the worst people from getting into power.

I would welcome a government that did absolutely nothing except stop bad guys from getting into power. Unfortunately, Congress thinks its job is to pass "legislation" and it does so in vast quantities. This has piled up over the decades covering the entire country in a gray legislative goo. If abolishing Congress is too big of step, how about changing the rules so that any new law requires a 70% majority? Or maybe ev…

Where could I find a list of terrible tyrants that came to power in a representative democratic system? That ought to be interesting.

Or are you saying that all systems with parties are abominable because of parties, regardless of the details of how the systems work?

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