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The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

atlasobscura.com

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Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#51

Post by shjake »

nologic01 wrote: post #38
akiselev wrote: post #15

The article fails to mention a major hypothesis that immediately came to mind when I saw the object. Wikipedia agrees [1]: > It has also been suggested that they might have been an object to test the skill of a metalsmith, perhaps as part of a portfolio to demonstrate their capabilities to customers or as a way to qualify for a certain status in a collegium (guild). This speculation is based on the historic cost of b…

Why the specific Gallo-Roman geographic distribution? Presumably blacksmiths existed and needed "visiting cards" across the Roman Empire? As an impromptu digital armchair archeologist I'd say this very specific geographic dispersion suggests cultural / religious significance. In any case it weighs against a purely utilitarian role (that would easily diffuse across the empire). Wax residue was found inside "one or two…

Archeologists classifying every object they can’t explain the purpose of as a cult/religious/ritualistic item is a bit of cliche. I wonder what future archeologists might think about some of the stuff we have in a couple of thousand years if some societal collapse occurs in between.

> Possibly used in a ceremony using candles

It’s possible they could have also used it to hold candles outside of religious ceremonies.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#52

Post by akiselev »

INTPenis wrote: post #44
akiselev wrote: post #15

The article fails to mention a major hypothesis that immediately came to mind when I saw the object. Wikipedia agrees [1]: > It has also been suggested that they might have been an object to test the skill of a metalsmith, perhaps as part of a portfolio to demonstrate their capabilities to customers or as a way to qualify for a certain status in a collegium (guild). This speculation is based on the historic cost of b…

I think the major argument against this theory is the map, as the article states. Most of the theories for their use are actually invalid simply by looking at the map of finds. Fishing, toys, music, games, things that were global in the roman empire. What the map shows is that it was used in the colder parts of the empire.

That map looks exactly what I would expect it to look like if it was passed on from master to apprentice metalworker as part of a graduating project.

These wouldn't have been products sold to customers and traded, they would have been symbols that the individuals had achieved mastery within a specific lineage of artisans restricted to that region. Almost all knowledge was communicated via oral means because scribes were very expensive and most people were illiterate - there's zero reason to expect a wide distribution throughout the empire.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#53

Post by akiselev »

Altho wrote: post #32
akiselev wrote: post #15

The article fails to mention a major hypothesis that immediately came to mind when I saw the object. Wikipedia agrees [1]: > It has also been suggested that they might have been an object to test the skill of a metalsmith, perhaps as part of a portfolio to demonstrate their capabilities to customers or as a way to qualify for a certain status in a collegium (guild). This speculation is based on the historic cost of b…

I think it's an interesting hypothesis; it's definitely a complex piece. However there are some things like the different size holes and the little knobs that I don't see adding complexity to the dodecahedron and seem to be more functional to me. It seems like it could be rotated to put the right size hole whereve it needs to be and the knobs are placed so it can stand no matter what hole is chosen

That's actually what gave me the idea in the first place: I think the knobs resemble practice sprues [1] or jig holding points.

The holes would likely have been cut using premade templates so the builders just used a different side pattern on each side, perhaps to demonstrate centering.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprue_(manufacturing)#Injectio...

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#55

Post by Taniwha »

jhoechtl wrote: post #49

They were used to measure the amount of pasta noodles depending on the amount of expected guests. Way more elegant than what we have from ikea today. Another theory of mine is a candle holder which adapts to stump size.

Except that pasta came from China 1000 years later ....

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#57

Post by arp242 »

INTPenis wrote: post #45
arp242 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting, but at least one of them seems to have no holes at all: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2018_Rheinisches_Lan... Also not convinced it will be all that stable as a candle holder.

Maybe it wasn't finished? And the ones out of stone could be a poor persons attempt, because stone also retains heat. I actually like any theory related to heat because that's what the map indicates. Any other theory is related to things and actions that were common throughout the empire.

Maybe. I tried to find a catalogue of dodecahedrons, but I couldn't really find any in a few minutes of searching, so I'm not sure if all except one doesn't have any holes, or if there are more of them. Many of the images seem to be of the same few objects.

As for heat: how did people heat their homes? Rich people had their fancy underfloor heating, but what did poor and middle-class people use? In Celtic and medieval times they would typically use a hearth (i.e. fire) – it seems to me a candle just doesn't give enough heat, and you're going to need a hearth anyway for cooking. I would imagine that's also what they used during Roman times since that's what's used both before and after the Roman era.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#58

Post by brazzy »

malloci wrote: post #18

I always find it interesting that objects like these must have had to have a purpose. Why couldn’t it have been a piece of art simply for decoration?

Because if you do art, you want to make something unique. Artists don't create exact replicas of the same object so often that a hundred of them are found over 1000 years later (which implies that there were probably many thousands of these).
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