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The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

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Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#31

Post by swayvil »

Jarmsy wrote: post #19
detrites wrote: post #16

One of the suggestions was as a mounting point for metal or wooden poles. This suggested, to me at least use as a joint for scaffolding. The holes of differing sizes accommodating pole diameters suited to each purpose for a given scaffold. On the outside the protrusions could have been used for tying ropes that secure the joint to the pole. Could have been very strong if also threaded inside the dodecahedrons as well…

Regular dodecahedra don't tile space, so these wouldn't make much sense as scaffold nodes. For regular space frames with identical nodes, truncated octahedra are more useful.

Aside from cubes, what regular polyhedra can you tile space with?

--nvrmnd. Apparently there's only 1. Cube

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#32

Post by Altho »

akiselev wrote: post #15

The article fails to mention a major hypothesis that immediately came to mind when I saw the object. Wikipedia agrees [1]: > It has also been suggested that they might have been an object to test the skill of a metalsmith, perhaps as part of a portfolio to demonstrate their capabilities to customers or as a way to qualify for a certain status in a collegium (guild). This speculation is based on the historic cost of b…

I think it's an interesting hypothesis; it's definitely a complex piece. However there are some things like the different size holes and the little knobs that I don't see adding complexity to the dodecahedron and seem to be more functional to me. It seems like it could be rotated to put the right size hole whereve it needs to be and the knobs are placed so it can stand no matter what hole is chosen

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#33

Post by misnome »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #30
firstlink wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the bit where knitting hadn't been invented yet was pretty illuminating on the dodecahedron hypothesis.

Knitting predates the Roman empire by a comfortable margin.

The link, and wikipedia, disagree with you.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#34

Post by George83728 »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #30
firstlink wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the bit where knitting hadn't been invented yet was pretty illuminating on the dodecahedron hypothesis.

Knitting predates the Roman empire by a comfortable margin.

Do you have any evidence for that? Note that knitting is a specific thing, we're not talking about all woven textiles generally.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#36

Post by detrites »

Jarmsy wrote: post #19
detrites wrote: post #16

One of the suggestions was as a mounting point for metal or wooden poles. This suggested, to me at least use as a joint for scaffolding. The holes of differing sizes accommodating pole diameters suited to each purpose for a given scaffold. On the outside the protrusions could have been used for tying ropes that secure the joint to the pole. Could have been very strong if also threaded inside the dodecahedrons as well…

Regular dodecahedra don't tile space, so these wouldn't make much sense as scaffold nodes. For regular space frames with identical nodes, truncated octahedra are more useful.

Now that makes a lot of sense.

Though, makes me wonder - what about when constructing domes?

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#37

Post by Hammerhead12321 »

It’s a chandelier/candle holder or heating device, is it not? Wax was even found on one. The different size holes accommodate different candle sizes.

They were made with a copper alloy and thus conduct heat efficiently. That also aligns with the reasoning used to justify the gloves theory (i.e. they were primarily found in colder climates).

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#38

Post by nologic01 »

akiselev wrote: post #15

The article fails to mention a major hypothesis that immediately came to mind when I saw the object. Wikipedia agrees [1]: > It has also been suggested that they might have been an object to test the skill of a metalsmith, perhaps as part of a portfolio to demonstrate their capabilities to customers or as a way to qualify for a certain status in a collegium (guild). This speculation is based on the historic cost of b…

Why the specific Gallo-Roman geographic distribution? Presumably blacksmiths existed and needed "visiting cards" across the Roman Empire?

As an impromptu digital armchair archeologist I'd say this very specific geographic dispersion suggests cultural / religious significance. In any case it weighs against a purely utilitarian role (that would easily diffuse across the empire).

Wax residue was found inside "one or two". Possibly used in a ceremony using candles. The protrusions might have been yarn anchors, not to knit gloves, but to form elaborate ritualistic symbols. I.e. imagine the bare metal covered with a colorful pattern that would be wound and unwound to match the occasion.

Re: The mysterious dodecahedrons of the Roman Empire

#40

Post by arp242 »

Hammerhead12321 wrote: post #37

It’s a chandelier/candle holder or heating device, is it not? Wax was even found on one. The different size holes accommodate different candle sizes. They were made with a copper alloy and thus conduct heat efficiently. That also aligns with the reasoning used to justify the gloves theory (i.e. they were primarily found in colder climates).

This is interesting, but at least one of them seems to have no holes at all: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2018_Rheinisches_Lan...

Also not convinced it will be all that stable as a candle holder.

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