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Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#11

Post by rcarr »

This entire argument is simple. If you’re a manager and you hire someone, you trust them to do the job you want doing. If you don’t trust them to do the job, don’t hire them. If you don’t trust anyone, then you have trust issues and probably shouldn’t be a manager and should instead go and work on yourself.

If someone betrays your trust or doesn’t perform the job adequately: fire them. If someone performs the job adequately and can hold down a second job simultaneously then what is the problem? If you’re concerned you’re not getting value for money either extend the scope of your job until they can no longer hold down two jobs simultaneously and have to choose one or the other or fire them and hire a less competent employee who takes twice the time to do the job and costs less. But both of these options seem pretty ludicrous. Honestly, the entire debate around this subject all just stems around ego and power/control driven managers who shouldn’t be in the job in the first place.

And no, I’ve never personally held two remote jobs simultaneously. But companies really need to move away from this “paying for time” mindset to “paying for the job” mindset. Like if they want to do remote and they’re concerned about this then why not just hire contractors?

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#14

Post by giantg2 »

rcarr wrote: post #11

This entire argument is simple. If you’re a manager and you hire someone, you trust them to do the job you want doing. If you don’t trust them to do the job, don’t hire them. If you don’t trust anyone, then you have trust issues and probably shouldn’t be a manager and should instead go and work on yourself. If someone betrays your trust or doesn’t perform the job adequately: fire them. If someone performs the job ade…

They aren't even in a "paying for time" mindset. They're in, or at least trying to be in, the mindset of "we own everything you do while employed here".

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#15

Post by ineedausername »

flappyeagle wrote: post #6
superchroma wrote: post #2

Do you know what employees doing two jobs really is? Either savvy optimization of time or outright management failure. If you "get away with it", either: 1) your manager is not tracking and managing your time/productivity properly, or, 2) you're actually fit for purpose, the company is happy with your output, it meets expectations for what they pay and things are totally normal. Nobody is obliging these companies to…

Agreed. The real adaptation is more aggressive management with a short trigger to pip someone or fire them. Better and more engaged line managers solves the problem.

which moves back to the problem of companies not being able to retain talent because employees are now feeling pressured and getting "burnt out"...

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#16

Post by s1k3s »

rcarr wrote: post #11

This entire argument is simple. If you’re a manager and you hire someone, you trust them to do the job you want doing. If you don’t trust them to do the job, don’t hire them. If you don’t trust anyone, then you have trust issues and probably shouldn’t be a manager and should instead go and work on yourself. If someone betrays your trust or doesn’t perform the job adequately: fire them. If someone performs the job ade…

It's not that simple unfortunately. Some jobs have onboarding, which can last for weeks or even months. While in theory you can figure out if you're being screwed by an employee during onboarding, it would make the entire process a living hell for the employee. So most of the times you go with "they're new, they're learning, let's keep them for X months". If the person decides to slack it off after onboarding than you've just given someone free money for nothing.

Also firing people is not easy everywhere. In EU this is a complex process that can involve unions, trainings etc. While it's mostly a ton of paperwork that you just do it just adds up to spending money on a person who didn't want to work there anyway.

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#17

Post by Lukkaroinen »

I think that it's ok, if they can do that much work. I mean everyone can take two or three jobs even without remote jobs. Though with remote working it is easier to do two or three jobs if they are similar and you can send same work to both companies. It's not a problem before it's about copyright.

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#19

Post by ResearchCode »

scarface74 wrote: post #4
superchroma wrote: post #2

Do you know what employees doing two jobs really is? Either savvy optimization of time or outright management failure. If you "get away with it", either: 1) your manager is not tracking and managing your time/productivity properly, or, 2) you're actually fit for purpose, the company is happy with your output, it meets expectations for what they pay and things are totally normal. Nobody is obliging these companies to…

Which tech companies are both making a lot of money and still allowing remote work?

Which one isn't?

Re: Dishonesty will ruin remote work for all of us

#20

Post by lisasays »

Lukkaroinen wrote: post #17

I think that it's ok, if they can do that much work. I mean everyone can take two or three jobs even without remote jobs. Though with remote working it is easier to do two or three jobs if they are similar and you can send same work to both companies. It's not a problem before it's about copyright.

And if your employment contract -- like nearly every employment contract -- explicitly says "you will devote 40 hours a week to this role; and you will not take on outside obligations without giving written notice to the company" --

Is still "ok"?

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