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TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

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Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#361

Post by xvilka »

godelski wrote: post #151
capableweb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you can target specific demographics > control what they see > People are literally being programmed [...] by the specific triggers I hate marketing/PR as much as the next person, but have become part of daily life. How do we get rid of it? Outlaw the practice of trying to influence people by marketing? Edit: Rereading your comment I realize you're talking about something else, but I guess the same applies non…

How do we get rid of it? Can you get rid of it? No. Doing so would result in the loss of many important rights and have unintended consequences. Not even China can get rid of this. BUT that doesn't mean you can't put regulations and limitations on them. As one example, we may want to make laws that ensure that ads are easily recognizable as ads. I'm referencing Native Advertising. I want to use an example from the NY…

> Can you get rid of it? No

It's possible in some far future. Just rewire brains of people to ignore any kind of biases and susceptibility to manipulation. This new society would be 1000x times better than what we have now.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#362

Post by gretch »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #322
merek wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're bothered because it's a different country, then welcome to the club. The issue is which country has access to our very personal data, not simply a "different country". There are many countries whose citizens would trust a foreign government ahead of their own.

Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic... china knowing that, or your own government knowing that? I live in a small eu country... and as in most other eu countries, any weird request from china (for extradition or whatever) would just get ignored... if US asked... well, just look at assange.

> Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic

Okay and for the hundreds of millions of us who are not, do we prefer our govt knowing about us or the CCP.

I’m not a fan of the USG by any means - I have many many criticisms of the govt and I’ve participated in protests. To put contemporary USG and CCP in the same league is crazy talk.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#363

Post by throwaway2990 »

mardifoufs wrote: post #326
sva_ wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now it's someone else too.. but for "the rest of the world", it's just another country doing the same as has been done before by americans. As someone from Europe, I strongly disagree. There's a HUGE fucking difference between China having our (western) data compared to the USA. Unsure why you'd even make such a silly argument.

Yes, because you live in the west. Again, that's not true for the rest of the world. I for sure would rather prefer China reading my stuff than the US if I was still living in the middle east, for example.

Why? If you say “fuck Biden” nothing is gonna happen to you. If you say “fuck Xi” then you better hope you never travel to China. There’s a massive difference between east and west and what you say on the internet.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#364

Post by epicureanideal »

bobthepanda wrote: post #359
legutierr wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something our general culture ain't great at. What culture is good at it? People in general try to avoid pain. This tendency is not unique to our culture, is it?

The US is uniquely oriented around pain elimination . For example, the opioid epidemic ravaging the US after the overprescription of painkillers is absent in most European and Asian countries, because they were not optimizing patient outcomes for pain elimination.

It may also be that working conditions, poverty, lack of vacation, and differences in the practice of medicine, put Americans in more physical and mental pain than the average European, and so are more likely to turn to painkillers.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#365

Post by tjpnz »

throwaway038519 wrote: post #145
1101010010 wrote: post #52

Social media access to user data (whether foreign or domestic) is bad, but it is a distraction from the real evil: behavioral management at scale. When you can target specific demographics and control what they see 8-10 hours of the day, you can change what they think, say, do, and most importantly, how they vote. People are literally being programmed (euphemistically, "conditioned") by the specific triggers and stim…

Regarding your comment about behavioral management at scale. Carl Sagan once said: "If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." It would b…

Hence all the addicts that are so quick to its defense.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#366

Post by scott_w »

quarok wrote: post #321
wmidwestranger wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my dusty memory but I think the relation is that most people stay in the cave, not because they enjoy the experience or they're completely ignorant of the sky, they stay because they are unprepared, incapable, or unwilling to leave. I doubt most people believe that TikTok is valuable to them but I'm sure many find it irresistible once they are hooked.

My understanding of Plato's cave is that it is about the disparity between the ideas in our head and reality. For example, you know what a triangle is, but there is no such thing as a triangle in the world, only imperfect shapes with three sides that approximate a triangle. This means that it is not "most people stay in the cave" - it is, "we all stay in the cave because it is impossible to bridge the gap between the…

It’s possible to draw multiple meanings from the same allegory

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#367

Post by dotnet00 »

1101010010 wrote: post #52

Social media access to user data (whether foreign or domestic) is bad, but it is a distraction from the real evil: behavioral management at scale. When you can target specific demographics and control what they see 8-10 hours of the day, you can change what they think, say, do, and most importantly, how they vote. People are literally being programmed (euphemistically, "conditioned") by the specific triggers and stim…

Brings to mind that old leaked Google internal 'thought experiment' video "The Selfish Ledger": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDVVo14A_fo

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#369

Post by Guthur »

quarok wrote: post #321
wmidwestranger wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my dusty memory but I think the relation is that most people stay in the cave, not because they enjoy the experience or they're completely ignorant of the sky, they stay because they are unprepared, incapable, or unwilling to leave. I doubt most people believe that TikTok is valuable to them but I'm sure many find it irresistible once they are hooked.

My understanding of Plato's cave is that it is about the disparity between the ideas in our head and reality. For example, you know what a triangle is, but there is no such thing as a triangle in the world, only imperfect shapes with three sides that approximate a triangle. This means that it is not "most people stay in the cave" - it is, "we all stay in the cave because it is impossible to bridge the gap between the…

I thought it was a circle rather than a triangle.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#370

Post by roenxi »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #296
slim wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this feeling. It probably just means that you live in different reality than half the people commenting here. Maybe half the people commenting here are not americans ? It's still interesting and on subject, because social networks are probably what is causing this divide, because bubbles are isolated by design

I'm one of those not-americans, and for me it's just another different country getting my data (well.. would-be, if I had tiktok installed... or if i had facebook... so for me personally, it's only google that's problematic right now). Americans, welcome to the club of "the rest of the world"-ers, where foreign governments get access to our data :)

I'm not American, but even for people living in the US - China peering at your TikTok data is less threatening than the Feds peering at your Facebook posts.

One of those two groups is much more likely to cause trouble for US citizens. The Chinese won't have so many ex-lovers looking up their old flame for example, simply because there aren't so many cross-country relationships. And China is less likely to brand Americans as domestic terrorists. The Chinese won't tempted to use it to enforce laws retroactively or hunt down minorities as the US government would be if it goes rogue. There are just less opportunities overall to abuse the knowledge.

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