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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#621

Post by [deleted] »

phil21 wrote: post #554
Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

Yes, violent people should be removed from society. Full stop. That's the point. The tired trope that the US incarcerates so many non-violent criminals is just that, a trope. It's not based in reality. You could let out every single non-trafficking drug offense today and you wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the prison population at all. Drop that down to all non-violent offenses and it's not much better. At this po…

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#622

Post by haldujai »

phil21 wrote: post #554
Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

Yes, violent people should be removed from society. Full stop. That's the point. The tired trope that the US incarcerates so many non-violent criminals is just that, a trope. It's not based in reality. You could let out every single non-trafficking drug offense today and you wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the prison population at all. Drop that down to all non-violent offenses and it's not much better. At this po…

> Then you have someone who is generally a decent citizen who makes a mistake and gets the entire book thrown at them - since they have something to lose and it's not politically dangerous.

Speaking of tired tropes...

> Live in some of these urban neighborhoods and tell me with a straight face you don't want more people in prison.

Since you asked, I've lived in Dallas, Baltimore and the Detroit metro. I can tell you with a straight face I don't want more people in prison.

>You will be astounded at the people left to simply walk the streets and terrorize others.

It's more like you will be astounded at how dramatized this is, you will not be terrorized walking down the street.

> It's not based in reality. You could let out every single non-trafficking drug offense today and you wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the prison population at all. Drop that down to all non-violent offenses and it's not much better. At this point it's an outright lie when people bring this topic up, it's not simply being misinformed any longer.

Source?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#623

Post by loeg »

ravensfan69 wrote: post #210
loeg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. What? No. This is not remotely a universal American viewpoint -- especially the government being "on the side of the criminals etc." What would th…

> What would that even mean? It would look, and maybe this is sheer coincidence, very much like our present situation

Could you elaborate on some of the specific similarities you see?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#624

Post by loeg »

Natsu wrote: post #254
loeg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. What? No. This is not remotely a universal American viewpoint -- especially the government being "on the side of the criminals etc." What would th…

> especially the government being "on the side of the criminals etc." What would that even mean? I imagine that people would gesture at stories like this: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/suspect... > Police arrested one of two gun-wielding people caught on camera during a double shooting at a crowded holiday celebration this past weekend in south St. Louis, but the 33-year-old woman was released…

Oddball stories make the news because of how weird they are, not because they are representative.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#625

Post by Natsu »

loeg wrote: post #624
Natsu wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially the government being "on the side of the criminals etc." What would that even mean? I imagine that people would gesture at stories like this: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/suspect... > Police arrested one of two gun-wielding people caught on camera during a double shooting at a crowded holiday celebration this past weekend in south St. Louis, but the 33-year-old woman was released…

Oddball stories make the news because of how weird they are, not because they are representative.

So, to start with, I absolutely agree that the news can distort out notions of what is representative or not and it's something I've done my best to notice and account for by looking at broader statistics and trends in the data. In this case, though, it's part of a new phenomenon and there's no lack of examples.

Here's Alvin Bragg, talking about no longer charging certain crimes at all:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-dist...

Here's George Gascon doing the same in LA:

https://abc7.com/george-gascon-los-angeles-district-attorney...

If you prefer specific cases, here are some lawyers who were facing domestic terrorism charges for firebombing a police car. They had already plead guilty. They were given a new, lesser plea deal:

https://jonathanturley.org/2022/06/05/new-york-attorneys-acc...

I can find a lot more individual cases. For example, the Zimminskis who may only have been prosecuted because Binger was called to account for that during trial. They managed to get arrested for multiple other crimes, including a kidnapping, while on bail.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#626

Post by gentoo »

esyir wrote: post #605
naijaboiler wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how society works.

That is exactly how society works. If people work for my living and see someone just steal for theirs with absolutely no consequence, what they learn is that social dysfunction is optimal, and that doing otherwise is being a chump.

how about we build a robust social safety net so that stealing less than $1000 worth of stuff is not the best way to survive

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#627

Post by Georgelemental »

tomrod wrote: post #590
Georgelemental wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't seen much of the city, then. I live not far away, and functional cities do not have streets that look like what many of Baltimore's streets look like. And they don't have public schools were not a single student, out of hundreds, is meeting the minimum standards of proficiency

> functional cities do not have streets that look like what many of Baltimore's streets look like You may be experiencing a bit of proximity bias. Roads all over the north east are torn up. I'd argue the school district issue can be fixed, but it will take funding.

It's not the road surface, it's the city blocks with not a single window that isn't boarded up, and a third of the houses have trees growing inside.

As for the schools, they already get a ton of funds: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/update-balti...

But more money won't fix systemic incompetence, corruption (https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-baltimore-mayor-ca...), and misguided policies.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#628

Post by filoleg »

EliRivers wrote: post #536
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while. Genuine question; is that only physically? If I like causing people pain and anguish and suffering, and my weapon of choice is words, should I also be incarcerated because I hurt people intentionally? I tend towards not giving people a free pass simply because their weapon of choice is words, but (amongst other things) the US has a repu…

> If I like causing people pain and anguish and suffering, and my weapon of choice is words, should I also be incarcerated because I hurt people intentionally?

No, you shouldn't be incarcerated for that. You would be an asshole if you intentionally caused people anguish with your words, but being an asshole is not a crime (and shouldn't be).

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#629

Post by kwere »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #597
kwere wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

so, we should be living the movie A Clockwork Orange?

no, but some "lost causes" understand only violence, fear and shame if anything, religion served most of that purpouse, but that isnt effective nowadays. This strict treatments should be reserved to violent, higly recidive, antisocial, worst of the worst criminals, as a way to not have them treating the punishment of prison as a "gladiatior academy". 41bis like treatments in Italy could be a starter.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#630

Post by giantg2 »

rini17 wrote: post #599
giantg2 wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and is far more harmful to society than the actual crime." I doubt the victims see it that way. If we just let people steal, it can turn into a runaway chain reaction due to a lack of consequences.

You imply that if you were the victim, watching such byzantine process to recover mere hundreds of dollars would feel satisfying to you?

No, but the idea that there are disincentives for others to make me a repeat victim is nice.

"mere hundreds of dollars"

This is incredibly insensitive. That's a lot of money to lose to many people.

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