Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot • Hacker News Board

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#81

Post by retinaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:37 PM UTC

throwgdfdfdd wrote: post #20

password54321 wrote: post #14

Erdogan has probably one of the hardest presidential jobs as he has to balance relations between the west and the east while being a target for holding on to Islamic traditions. Yet at the same time he continues to be able keep NATO following his demands and being the most effective mediator between Russia and Europe. With that said he will likely have the majority vote no matter what the western media tells you, and…

Don‘t forget about stealing and firing any central banker who wants to increase interests rates to combat 80% (official) inflation. He fired how many, 7-8 central bankers. I predict the state pollster will report, like on every election, the most favorable regions first, to dissuade people from voting. If on this election Erdogan does not lose I pity the future of Turkey.

can you show us how interest rates rising helped citizen in the world? its a ponzi and he is right. turkey is victim of currency manipulation not interest rates. and in some ways most of the world is victim of the same currency manipulation where someone holds the world hostage by printing dollar while other countries can’t do same

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#82

Post by retinaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:44 PM UTC

from wrote: post #24

Anybody else tired of hearing about the woes of the "opposition" in all these 2nd/3rd world countries? They're always framed by journalists as these heroic freedom fighters, uncorruptible, etc but in reality it seems like they just want the proceeds of looting to go to themselves and their party instead of the current people in power. Barrow may be a better than Jammeh in the Gambia but not by very much, Aung San Suu…

I agree with your comment but comparin erdogan to those leader is not really fair. what he did for turkey development makes him likely the greatest leader of this era maybe next to merkel and putin. turkey is a top 20 world economy with highly strategic assets, big land, leader in drones, building nuclear reactors, having electronic conglomerates. this is in no way a 2nd or 3rd world country. most of its major cities are more developed and safe than suburbs of philly or chicago. in 10 years they will likely have western european living standards.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#83

Post by hgsgm » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

retinaros wrote: post #77

arroz wrote: post #31

Why is this news worthy? Shouldn’t the opposite be news worthy? if he promises he won’t transfer power peacefully? Or if he tries to not transfer power after the election?

because the media clearly wants him to loose so they can put a pro nato guy at the head of turkey. erdogan is a loose end, too much a nationalist, not globalized enough like a macron or a sunak. we re talking about the head of a state that resisted the US, lived through a coup d’etat where the main suspect lives in USA. btw this Gulen guy (who’s ten times the fanatic that erdogan is) is clearly typical america playbo…

The coup was probably fake, and was followed by a political purge across government.

Erdogan's staff violently attacked people in the US during his visit. Erdogan is supporting a radical religious takeover a secular state. He has a history of cancelling election when he doesn't like the result.

He rules in the style of Trump, ignoring the law.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#84

Post by retinaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

hgsgm wrote: post #83

retinaros wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the media clearly wants him to loose so they can put a pro nato guy at the head of turkey. erdogan is a loose end, too much a nationalist, not globalized enough like a macron or a sunak. we re talking about the head of a state that resisted the US, lived through a coup d’etat where the main suspect lives in USA. btw this Gulen guy (who’s ten times the fanatic that erdogan is) is clearly typical america playbo…

The coup was probably fake, and was followed by a political purge across government. Erdogan's staff violently attacked people in the US during his visit. Erdogan is supporting a radical religious takeover a secular state. He has a history of cancelling election when he doesn't like the result. He rules in the style of Trump, ignoring the law.

unfortunately u right that he moved secular to religious (not radical…) and guess how he did it? by applying european law under the premise that it was for the best of turkey and mandated to enter the EU. turkish law was less lenient toward religious radicalism than the EU. that is how he removed the army from power by saying that europe forbade an army with political power. oh and it was forbiden in turkey to have the veil in public institution but thanks to europe erdogan used european laws and human watch laws from the west to allow it. so it is europe that allowed this radicalism to take root into turkey, destroying its failsafe.

trump led usa to 0 war thank god he ignored the american tradition.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#85

Post by trompetenaccoun » Sat, May 13, 2023, 10:42 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #70

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They choose to do that a lot when it comes to foreign governments. North Korea could in theory send such "legal" demands if they allowed Twitter in the country. Actually a big reason for why Musk & co claimed they had to rescue Twitter was because the US government too made such demands to the previous owners and they censored American citizens under very questionable circumstances, including scientists. So at what p…

You're absolutely right that North Korea could make the exact same demands if they allowed Twitter, and Twitter would find itself in the same situation. In fact this has already happened with the EU leadership as well, who have plentiful censorship laws to exploit, and were being publicly flexed. Some deal was eventually made there; it's quite unfortunate it was not publicly elaborated upon. But in any case, this is…

Fair point as to the legality in the US.

I'm not sure if there are good arguments for complying with blackmail though, since that's exactly what governments like Turkey (and also the EU) are doing. They threaten them to either take down certain speech or the entire site gets blocked. By complying, the companies give legitimacy to those bullying tactics as well as strengthening the rule of the likes of Erdogan. They blocked Twitter a few weeks ago already, after the earthquake and following criticism of AKP. Unless it's a tactical decision before the election, it's not a good look. I personally know people who have been censored on Twitter at the demand of foreign authoritarian governments. It doesn't only affect foreigners but also dissident immigrants living in the US as a common example.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#86

Post by tptacek » Sun, May 14, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

retinaros wrote: post #82

from wrote: post #24

Anybody else tired of hearing about the woes of the "opposition" in all these 2nd/3rd world countries? They're always framed by journalists as these heroic freedom fighters, uncorruptible, etc but in reality it seems like they just want the proceeds of looting to go to themselves and their party instead of the current people in power. Barrow may be a better than Jammeh in the Gambia but not by very much, Aung San Suu…

I agree with your comment but comparin erdogan to those leader is not really fair. what he did for turkey development makes him likely the greatest leader of this era maybe next to merkel and putin. turkey is a top 20 world economy with highly strategic assets, big land, leader in drones, building nuclear reactors, having electronic conglomerates. this is in no way a 2nd or 3rd world country. most of its major cities…

I don't know what you think the suburbs of Chicago are like, but they're among the highest standards of living in the world. (I assume this is the case for Philadelphia as well, but I'm less familiar with any part of the metro area other than Malvern.)

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#87

Post by fakedang » Sun, May 14, 2023, 2:53 AM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #69

Jun8 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the points that is a bit complex: AFAIK there is large bi-partisan opposition against Sweden's Nato entry in the Turkish public opinion (for a variety of right or wrong reasons), so the issue is not just with the AKP base. I think there was some news that Ünal Çeviköz, Kilicdaroglu's (opposition leader) foreign policy advisor, has sent signals that were optimistic. Additionally, it may be easier for US…

> large bi-partisan opposition against Sweden's Nato entry Turkey has been trying to get into the EU for decades. I've seen nothing that suggests that's because they want to move closer to European social, political and commercial customs. After all, they could do that without the EU, if that was what they wanted. So I conclude that they just want budget handouts. And I also conclude that their opposition to Sweden j…

> FWIW, I don't think Turkey should be in NATO; and I don't think they should be in the EU. Not until they have some kind of reasonable governance.

Said by somebody who clearly does not understand the difference between the NATO and the EU, or the importance of Turkey in Europe.

Turkey is extremely important to NATO because a.) they control the Bosphorus b.) they have the largest armed forces in the NATO after the US, c.) their armed forces are technologically comparable to or better than most European armed forces, d.) they have historically been adversaries with Russia, and e.) from what we've seen in Ukraine, top-level politics aside, Turkey is a much more reliable material partner in the event of a war.

I'm sure the USA has very strong reasons to continue hosting its ICBMs in Turkey, even with all the issues that Turkey faces internally.

What a lot of commenters don't get is that if Turkey were admitted into the EU, it would upset the current balance between France and Germany. Turkey could easily become too much of a bigger power player within the EU if they were admitted.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#88

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 14, 2023, 3:08 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #86

retinaros wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment but comparin erdogan to those leader is not really fair. what he did for turkey development makes him likely the greatest leader of this era maybe next to merkel and putin. turkey is a top 20 world economy with highly strategic assets, big land, leader in drones, building nuclear reactors, having electronic conglomerates. this is in no way a 2nd or 3rd world country. most of its major cities…

I don't know what you think the suburbs of Chicago are like, but they're among the highest standards of living in the world. (I assume this is the case for Philadelphia as well, but I'm less familiar with any part of the metro area other than Malvern.)

[deleted]

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#89

Post by exabrial » Sun, May 14, 2023, 3:43 AM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #28

exabrial wrote: post #19

Some GeoPolitlcal context: * If you don't know about Erdogan, theres too much for a HN thread. * The 1936 Montreux Convention allows Turkey to deny any country at war (not with Turkey) to deny warship passage, except to return home. * Turkey is an incredibly important part of NATO because of their ability to choke Black Sea access. * This has kept Russia's warm warm navy in check, particularly for the Ukraine conflic…

Seems strange to try to provide context to a story about Erdogan but mostly talk about NATO and Turkey as a nation. If you want to try to provide context, please do so, but try to keep it related to the topic at least.

[flagged]

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#90

Post by exabrial » Sun, May 14, 2023, 3:50 AM UTC

harywilke wrote: post #42

exabrial wrote: post #19

Some GeoPolitlcal context: * If you don't know about Erdogan, theres too much for a HN thread. * The 1936 Montreux Convention allows Turkey to deny any country at war (not with Turkey) to deny warship passage, except to return home. * Turkey is an incredibly important part of NATO because of their ability to choke Black Sea access. * This has kept Russia's warm warm navy in check, particularly for the Ukraine conflic…

"* The US leases airbases in Turkey, with nuclear penetration bombers and nuclear warheads stored on site." My understanding is that the bombs are on site, but the bombers are not. This from 2019 by The Federation of American Scientists supports that view.[1] "The remaining 50 bombs are for use by US jets, even though Turkey never allowed the US Air Force to permanently base fighter-squadrons at Incirlik. Jets would…

I actually didn't know that, thank you for enlightening me. I've heard of people refer to working out of that base with bomber crews, and I didn't even stop to think for a second that the planes are in fact _not_ permanently hangered there.