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TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

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Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#241

Post by throwaway4575 »

1101010010 wrote: post #52

Social media access to user data (whether foreign or domestic) is bad, but it is a distraction from the real evil: behavioral management at scale. When you can target specific demographics and control what they see 8-10 hours of the day, you can change what they think, say, do, and most importantly, how they vote. People are literally being programmed (euphemistically, "conditioned") by the specific triggers and stim…

If your democracy can be thwarted by free speech from a bad actor, then your democracy is shit.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#242

Post by imbnwa »

crmd wrote: post #57
aardvarkr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that a state actor would seek to flip a foreign National to their cause. You can do so with either a carrot or a stick or both. The carrot can be fancy dinners, free vacations, or access to what they want. The carrot can be threat of exposure of deep secrets, etc. Now imagine that there is an app that has the AMAZING ability to figure out EXACTLY what you like and don’t like. You haven’t used TikTok yourself…

And the 66% of US teens on TikTok are 66% of the next generation of US senators, presidents, cabinet members, military chiefs, etc. Imagine the competitive advantage of having a deep psychological profile for each of these personas of your geopolitical adversary.

Is American turnover in Congress actually that fast enough for this to happen? We have more people over 40 than younger people and the influx of youth is being floated by an immigration policy that favors middle- and upper-class, basically the brain drain, of the rest of the world (read: people interested in business-friendly policy, etc), and older people, say, everyone 40 - 60, will have even greater life expectancy, so those who are in power may be in power when current teens are adults, just as Nancy Pelosi has been a Congresswoman my entire life and a good chunk of my mother's.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#243

Post by jstarfish »

Joeri wrote: post #212
meowtimemania wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would TikTok or FaceBook not engineer addiction? It generates more money for them. If they don't engineer addiction, another company will emerge and engineer addiction. I think this type of problem has to be solved by the government.

Should all addictive products be allowed? When does such a product deserve being regulated or outlawed?

You regulate or outlaw products when they negatively impact self or public health or safety.

There's a brief scene on Bojack Horseman involving a commercial for some chicken product. In it, a kid yells at his parents "I don't want to go to school, I want Chicken-4-Dayz!"

Some kids are badly-behaved. They get a lot of validation and reinforcement of their behavior from these platforms, especially since any disciplinary misstep by a parent invites CPS visits. But we should ask why products like "Chicken-4-Dayz" influence children to reject their own actual needs and tone that shit down.

I hear a lot of stories from teachers about teenage boys coming to school exhausted beyond functioning. Child labor abuses from working extra shifts at the factory? No. They're up all night all week playing Call of Duty.

When people opt to consume a product instead of doing the things they need to do to survive past their consumption, it's addiction. All controlled substances have this trait. Given an infinite supply of amphetamines, most people will dehydrate or starve to death.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#244

Post by ipnon »

COGlory wrote: post #231
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #133

Half of the comments in this thread sound like they were written by CCP propaganda chatbots. A dead giveaway is the failure to address the topic at hand and immediately deflect to "but the USA does XYZ too!" No one is disputing such a claim, but that's also not what we're talking about here.

Be that as it may.... > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#245

Post by bequanna »

ok123456 wrote: post #120
bequanna wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe this? It sounds like you are consuming far too much anti-American and pro-Chinese propaganda. The Chinese succeeding in their geopolitical goals is the suppression of the individual at scale. Extinguishing of the light. Collectivism looks good on paper but ultimately is high minded and has fatal flaws which resulted in horrible outcomes whenever tried. 100 million+ dead in the 20th century.

US incarceration and conviction rates based on race are commonly tabulated.

The US generally imprisons only those people who commit serious crimes. There are likely some biases that result in imperfect application of the law. We’re working on it.

China imprisons and enslaves people simply for being members of the “wrong” ethnic group.

Please explain how these are even close to the same thing.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#246

Post by jay_kyburz »

karmajunkie wrote: post #174
godelski wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get rid of it? Can you get rid of it? No. Doing so would result in the loss of many important rights and have unintended consequences. Not even China can get rid of this. BUT that doesn't mean you can't put regulations and limitations on them. As one example, we may want to make laws that ensure that ads are easily recognizable as ads. I'm referencing Native Advertising. I want to use an example from the NY…

While i think these are ideas worth considering, what I think is the answer is perhaps staring us in the face: put regulatory limits on the amount and kind of data that apps and websites can collect. The real problem with tiktok is not the CCP; it seems likely in my mind that our own government has equally nefarious techniques at play in other countries, and I think its unfair to single out a single company over this…

You would have to make it illegal to show different content to different users. Get rid of "the algorithm" and every website becomes a simple catalog of content.

I also think if you do any moderation of content, you lose your "common carrier" status and become a publisher, responsible for any content you publish.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#247

Post by Dylan16807 »

samstave wrote: post #24
Lucasoato wrote: post #7

I would be extremely surprised if a state-actor like China couldn’t access most US company data at will. If you can invest several billions and have thousands of people working to create a breach, no company is safe, not even AWS or Microsoft. In this case, that’s even way easier, the company is Chinese, the CCP can have this access lawfully, is this something unexpected? I’m much more concerned by the laziness of mo…

Imagine the worms put on phones of employees of various tech companies - specifically datacenter employees in various commerical and government agencies - recall the STRAVA scandal which revealed secret military bases... The TikTok angle is like stuxnet for that type of corporate/gov espionage.... Its ludicris how poorly the USG has handled this. But then again, you have so many people in congress with dual citizensh…

If you want dual citizens to be ineligible for congress then just do that, it doesn't have to be a crime...

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#248

Post by laratied »

pessimizer wrote: post #193
makach wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does this differ from newspapers, books and the spoken word?

It doesn't. "Propaganda" is a western word for any argument coming from the eastern enemies of the state, and "Brainwashing" is a western word for being convinced by them. The way we control behavior is by depriving people of unfiltered information, not showing them cat videos and remembering if they liked them.

[dead]

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#249

Post by jay_kyburz »

jstarfish wrote: post #225
karmajunkie wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get points for pithy snark, but given that the problem predates smartphones, this isn't likely to solve it.

No, it really is that simple. Never before has a foreign entity been able to deliver personalized content at the individual level. Not at this scale. The only way a device could get any more embedded would be through rectal insertion. Not every problem can be solved. Sometimes the best we can do is mitigate. [Smart]phones are spyware in every pocket...by design.

That solves "your" problem.

It doesn't solve the problems for your democracy.

We want to limit the ability of the wealthy and foreign nations to control the mob.

We want the mob to be well adjusted, well educated, happy, and kind.

Re: TikTok Owner Had 'Backdoor' for CCP Access to US Data, Lawsuit Alleges

#250

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

kelipso wrote: post #185
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #133

Half of the comments in this thread sound like they were written by CCP propaganda chatbots. A dead giveaway is the failure to address the topic at hand and immediately deflect to "but the USA does XYZ too!" No one is disputing such a claim, but that's also not what we're talking about here.

Lol. Dump all the US instances into the memory hole. Only bring it up when China does it. When you bring up how US does it too, it's "whataboutism". Have to say it's a great strategy for maintaining a narrative.

> Dump all the US instances into the memory hole

Yes, it's called focusing on a particular subject, the topic at hand.

Do you go into Snowden threads and complain that people are dumping the routine monitoring of their populace by the Chinese in the memory hole?

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