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Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

nautil.us

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Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#221

Post by cubefox »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #206
cubefox wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related, there are people who say aphantasia can be cured: https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/i-cured-my-aphantasia-wit...

Interesting. As an aphantasiac myself, I find it surprising that this person has such a negative perspective, wanting to "cure" his aphantasia. As far as I know, aphantasia has never had any meaningful negative impact on my life. We just think without mental images, but we can solve the same kind of problems as the rest. That's why most of us don't even find out that we are different until we read about it somewhere…

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Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#222

Post by peoplefromibiza »

archon1410 wrote: post #172
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, that's not a rebuttal though I was pointing out that humans are the only species that cares about this stuff, not simply that humans can empathize Where are pigs armies in support of the Ukranian invasion? ( fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths ) Where are pigs trying to save other animal species from extinction? ( the suffering of others ) what kind of advancement in thought have pigs produced regard…

Having the ability/capability to enact change is not the same as caring. A person, or a whole species, can care about the suffering of others without having the ability to do anything about it, or even realising the scale or nature of the problem due to limited intelligence.

> A person, or a whole species, can care about the suffering of others without having the ability to do anything about it,

if they could care in a meaningful way they could change at least their individual behavior, form their own pack, under different rules.

it never happened.

but the most important point is: if we are not great of a species because we don't care about fellow humans and other living beings suffering, every other species is worse than us on that matter, hence we might be not great, but are still the best of the bunch.

we are still the only species that does it in a way that has an actual impact and produces a change over time.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#223

Post by waselighis »

mistermann wrote: post #184
waselighis wrote: post #100

I'm still left dumbfounded by the amount of nonsense surrounding the phenomenon of consciousness. Consciousness emerges from a PHYSICAL process, not from software or some trained model full of matrices of numbers. It doesn't matter how sophisticated/intelligent/capable your AI model might be, there's no reason to assume it's conscious. There's no evidence to suggest that any sufficiently complex system can emerge con…

> What you perceive as reality is whatever your brain tells you it is. Does this not cause a self-referential, recursive infinite loop of some sort here?

There is likely some sort of feedback loop between the brain and consciousness. Our conscious experience does have some unknown effect on the brain that alters our behavior and thinking, otherwise we wouldn't be able to speak of our conscious experience or practice introspection. However, I feel like you're implying this leads to some sort of paradox, but I see no reason to assume that it's paradoxical. In mathematics, self-references or infinites don't always result in contradictions.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#224

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

cubefox wrote: post #135
kajaktum wrote: post #79

> We think we’re intelligent, know we’re conscious, and so assume the two go together. Excuse me, I know _I_ am conscious. There is literally nothing you can do to proof that there's anything outside of what I am conscious of. The world could be a very stable illusion, a dream, a simulation and it would all be the same. I don't understand why people think that it matters whether AI is conscious or not. We can't even…

The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. And whether or not something is conscious matters a lot ethically. If something is conscious, it may suffer. Conscious and unconscious objects have to be treated in a completely different w…

What is suffering? Can you define it objectively/empirically?

If there is indeed such a phenomenon, then why should I care about the suffering of non-humans?

Granted, it may be a very bad idea to ignore the suffering of some superhuman AI that was recently invented... don't piss off your godlings after all or they'll smite you. But animals? If suffering made chicken taste better, I don't see any problem with Torture Nuggets.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#225

Post by waselighis »

29athrowaway wrote: post #2

Kurzgesagt has a video about the origin of consciousness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6u0VBqNBQ8

I think this video starts out good, but then goes downhill quickly and makes lots of assumptions about the role of consciousness. The video uses the word aware/awareness a lot, but there's no good reason to assume that "aware" behavior necessitates consciousness. The role of consciousness is unclear, and it's also unclear how capable the brain is in the absence of consciousness. AI models could be trained to emulate awareness. A robot could be programmed to recognize itself in the mirror. Awareness does not imply consciousness, and we shouldn't assume that an animal's ability to understand its environment is because of consciousness.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#226

Post by larryfreeman »

kajaktum wrote: post #79

> We think we’re intelligent, know we’re conscious, and so assume the two go together. Excuse me, I know _I_ am conscious. There is literally nothing you can do to proof that there's anything outside of what I am conscious of. The world could be a very stable illusion, a dream, a simulation and it would all be the same. I don't understand why people think that it matters whether AI is conscious or not. We can't even…

I am baffled when smart people say something like this. Without consciousness, without a stake in the game, the behavior is pure statistics. Statistics is limited by probabilities and logical gates. Nothing else. Consciousness is about being aware which means insights about context and harm. People are limited in ways that a statistical engine is not and that makes all the difference in the world.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#227

Post by cubefox »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #224
cubefox wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. And whether or not something is conscious matters a lot ethically. If something is conscious, it may suffer. Conscious and unconscious objects have to be treated in a completely different w…

What is suffering? Can you define it objectively/empirically? If there is indeed such a phenomenon, then why should I care about the suffering of non-humans? Granted, it may be a very bad idea to ignore the suffering of some superhuman AI that was recently invented... don't piss off your godlings after all or they'll smite you. But animals? If suffering made chicken taste better, I don't see any problem with Torture…

Well, suffering is bad, and more suffering is worse than less, and knowingly acting in a way which increases suffering is wrong.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#228

Post by bowsamic »

jprete wrote: post #144
bowsamic wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Excuse me, I know _I_ am conscious. There is literally nothing you can do to proof that there's anything outside of what I am conscious of. The world could be a very stable illusion, a dream, a simulation and it would all be the same. You should really read some Hegel

I'd be interested in a more direct reference if you have one.

The easiest place to start is probably his Encyclopaedia of the Philosophical sciences

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#229

Post by zvmaz »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #203
zvmaz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing wrong with killing animals for food, the problem is we don't do it humanely. What if a hypothetical alien super-intelligence came to earth and found us very tasty, thus killing us for food and pleasure (maybe "humanly")? I wish I found a way out of the many dilemmas of meat eating (currently eating it).

I've always found that alien argument weak. Humans pass a threshold given that we have self-awareness. None of the animals we eat for food do. If aliens were advanced enough to travel earth hopefully they would have a similar set of ethics. Of if they were just warmongers/conquerors it wouldn't matter.

How do you know other animals are not self-aware? Is self-awareness a criteria for not being killed and eaten? Is it not pain and suffering that really matters?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#230

Post by dTal »

wincy wrote: post #55
zvmaz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing wrong with killing animals for food, the problem is we don't do it humanely. What if a hypothetical alien super-intelligence came to earth and found us very tasty, thus killing us for food and pleasure (maybe "humanly")? I wish I found a way out of the many dilemmas of meat eating (currently eating it).

You can avoid all these dilemmas by remembering that humans were given the divine spark, and given dominion over all animals by the one true God. Also, since animals don’t have souls and we do, it’s fine if we eat the aliens. They can’t eat us, obviously, that would be immoral. I can hardly imagine how tortured and awful an existence it’d be to not believe that humans are special and unique, and that we just go into…

I prefer to believe things because they're true, rather than because they're convenient. You can indeed avoid a lot of awkward moral dilemmas by simply declaring yourself more morally deserving by definition, but in doing so you leave the path of morality entirely. And in that case, why stop at the human species? You can avoid even more moral dilemmas by declaring yourself inherently superior to other humans. I believe this is popular amongst the billionaire set.
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