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Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

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Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#71

Post by imtringued »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #37
somenameforme wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some interesting context here: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1657428707995181058 Turkey is presumably making a legal demand. So Twitter's choices are censor a handful of individuals in Turkey or have Turkey block Twitter for everybody. The thing that will be interesting is Twitter posting the demand from Turkey. If this is normalized, it would be another great step forward in transparency for Twitter. It'd be s…

They choose to do that a lot when it comes to foreign governments. North Korea could in theory send such "legal" demands if they allowed Twitter in the country. Actually a big reason for why Musk & co claimed they had to rescue Twitter was because the US government too made such demands to the previous owners and they censored American citizens under very questionable circumstances, including scientists. So at what p…

I think he is on the side of people who haven't been blocked yet and who use the platform to criticise the government.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#72

Post by alephnerd »

akudha wrote: post #67
alephnerd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American legal system is slow. Most litigation against Trump only really started in 2017 or 2018. A couple were thrown out due to procedural issues (blame that slimeball Avennati), but others have gone through. Also, most litigation mentioned against Trump is in the Civil Court system, where has has faced penalties. Criminal litigation on the other hand takes A LOT of time, especially if you hire a firm with a st…

Do you honestly think if you or I had classified material, it will take years to prosecute us? He had classified material at his home, by the boxes, including some nuclear secrets. Feds were politely requesting him to give them back, for months . If you or I were doing it, we would be in a supermax cell somewhere or worse, pretty quickly. As for attorneys defending him, please take a look at people like Tacopina. Doe…

> Do you honestly think if you or I had classified material, it will take years to prosecute us? He had classified material at his home, by the boxes, including some nuclear secrets

There was a DoJ decision to be slow and steady on the classified information litigation probe [0]. Going fast can cause mistakes to arise, which can cause cases to be thrown out due to technicalities.

> As for attorneys defending him, please take a look at people like Tacopina. Doesn't particularly inspire confidence.

It's not one lawyer throwing a shingle outside a strip mall. Tacopina, Seigel & DeOreo is a decently sized firm for criminal defense cases, and has had decent recent successes [1]

Btw - I am not Republican and cases do legitimately take forever. Also there are multiple cases involving Trump occurring over different timelines.

[0] - https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/23/garland-biden-trump...

[1] - https://www.tacopinalaw.com/notable-case/

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#73

Post by parrellel »

darthrupert wrote: post #21

I genuinely don't understand why Erdogan is called a dictator in the west. He's not an ideal democratic leader, sure, but seems to be far from a dictator.

About the time you fake a coup to clean house, you start getting the despot label bandied about. That, the ethnic cleansing, the antidemocratic reforms, the arresting and forcing out critics and opponents. Dude's not the absolute bottom of the barrel among world leaders but he's definitely worked through enough of the autocracy bingo card.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#74

Post by Avshalom »

alephnerd wrote: post #59
mrtksn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I haven't heard of this. However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible? The Turkish "tradition" is to switch power every 20 years and destroy those who previously held power. Before Erdogan, the secularists were in power and they are just as corrupt and oppressive. Their dominance in business and public life was systematically eroded and unfairl…

> However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible? Yep. That's the MASSIVE downside of the Korean model and why there is an insane amount of cynicism against politicians in South Korea. But the alternative is 3-5 years of violent demonstrations. The Korean model of pardons started in the 1980s when Korea was transitioning from a Military Dicatorship into a (ki…

Chun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo we both pardoned by Kim Young-sam but only at the end of his term it was not an incoming pardoning the outgoing thing.

Lee Myung-bak was pardoned three president's later by Yoon Suk-yeol. Park Geun-hye was pardoned by her successor but not until 4 years after she'd been removed and several years of prison.

Again not incoming pardoning the outgoing.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#75

Post by alephnerd »

Avshalom wrote: post #74
alephnerd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible? Yep. That's the MASSIVE downside of the Korean model and why there is an insane amount of cynicism against politicians in South Korea. But the alternative is 3-5 years of violent demonstrations. The Korean model of pardons started in the 1980s when Korea was transitioning from a Military Dicatorship into a (ki…

Chun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo we both pardoned by Kim Young-sam but only at the end of his term it was not an incoming pardoning the outgoing thing. Lee Myung-bak was pardoned three president's later by Yoon Suk-yeol. Park Geun-hye was pardoned by her successor but not until 4 years after she'd been removed and several years of prison. Again not incoming pardoning the outgoing.

Good catch. Edited my statement accordingly.

But big picture, Turkey in 2023 is much closer to the era of Chun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo socially, economically, and politically, so the same kinds of worries about political violence holds.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#77

Post by retinaros »

arroz wrote: post #31

Why is this news worthy? Shouldn’t the opposite be news worthy? if he promises he won’t transfer power peacefully? Or if he tries to not transfer power after the election?

because the media clearly wants him to loose so they can put a pro nato guy at the head of turkey. erdogan is a loose end, too much a nationalist, not globalized enough like a macron or a sunak.

we re talking about the head of a state that resisted the US, lived through a coup d’etat where the main suspect lives in USA. btw this Gulen guy (who’s ten times the fanatic that erdogan is) is clearly typical america playbook (just like ben laden was a cia asset, hussein as well)

Im not even backing the guy but it is neither black or white. he did move things and developed turkey to an extent few leaders could have dreamt of

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#78

Post by retinaros »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #56
volvogradSaint wrote: post #30

Really? Even when soldiers rose up and overthrew him, he still clung to power. If even a bloody coup couldn't do it, what chance does an election have?

Coup didn’t have support from the public.

most of the western leaders waited to see how things were unfolding. Funny to compare the muteness of those leaders when macron right now is removing rioters from having a right to riot; beating them, and putting people who complain into jail with very little backfiring on the ww scene

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#79

Post by retinaros »

darthrupert wrote: post #21

I genuinely don't understand why Erdogan is called a dictator in the west. He's not an ideal democratic leader, sure, but seems to be far from a dictator.

well there is a clear difference. if you are someone like macron and give to the US everything including your companies, your banks, your assets, your army, then you can beat any kind of riots at home and be called a genius. if you are someone like erdogan where your country should go first and sometimes that means going against american interest well you will be a dictator. it is simple there isnt a country in the world that oppose american views and idea and is not ruled by a said dictator according to our press.

Re: Erdogan Promises to Transfer Power Peacefully If He Loses Ballot

#80

Post by retinaros »

exabrial wrote: post #19

Some GeoPolitlcal context: * If you don't know about Erdogan, theres too much for a HN thread. * The 1936 Montreux Convention allows Turkey to deny any country at war (not with Turkey) to deny warship passage, except to return home. * Turkey is an incredibly important part of NATO because of their ability to choke Black Sea access. * This has kept Russia's warm warm navy in check, particularly for the Ukraine conflic…

“ Trump denied Turkey access to the F-35 program because they chose to install S400 systems from Russia.”

this is true but please explain as well why turkey is using S400 systems. Erdogan tried for years to get similar systems from the US and they never wanted to give it to turkey. Erdogan then rightfully bought S400 and this angered USA so much they removed turkey from F35; turkey then developed their own aircraft. lets also state that similar moves in drone technology years earlier by USA led turkey to become the world leader of modern drone warfare.

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