Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#591

Post by tombert » Fri, May 12, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #282

alwayslikethis wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically you can short the stock to offset the risks, though this creates a conflict of interest and can be considered insider trading. Alternatively maybe invest in a fund that invests in a competitor and other industries.

VTSAX has all your bases covered there.

That's pretty much what I've always done (well, the ETF equivalent VTI), even when I worked for S&P500 companies like Walmart or Apple. I wanted to hedge my bets a bit and make sure that even if the company went a bit pear-shaped, I would have my money stashed in whomever was there to pick up the pieces.

You know, I never even considered that maybe I should have disclosed that to employers until right now...

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#592

Post by deanCommie » Fri, May 12, 2023, 8:15 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #297

deanCommie wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 Million dollar bump 220,000 microsoft employees Assuming each was in line to get more than a 5$ raise (obviously), the bonus to the CEO MORE than offsets the cost saved to the employees. From a financial perspective, a bonus to the CEO makes perfect sense. Welcome to capitalism.

Not really. If the CEO was in charge of the direction of the company, and that direction was so bad that they have to make major layoffs and cuts, then they shouldn't be rewarded for this. This isn't a fucking game. These are human lives. Microsoft laid off 10,000 humans [1] because their idiotic CEO decided it would be a really good idea to overhire like crazy in 2021 and 2022. This was the wrong decision and now th…

> This isn't a fucking game. These are human lives.

Welcome to Capitalism...

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#593

Post by throw123123123 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:46 AM UTC

pnt12 wrote: post #545

throw123123123 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not related to capitalism or labor organization. It's that the relationship between profits and wages is misunderstood. If you want your income to be completely tied to the business results, you want to be a business owner. There is no sociopathy, it is a simple enterprise where someone absorbs the risk and others don't - it is collaboration.

That's the status quo - a distinction between owner and employee. And it's good for the owners, who get to maximize profits - but is it good for employees? I'd say there's less risk, but they get impacted when business is down, and may not reap the profits when business is good. Some companies are experimenting with other models - there's no law or force of nature saying an employee can't be a partial owner of a busi…

You can start your own company, service or product and own 100%. In tech there's pretty much no excuse, anyone can make money online.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#594

Post by nunez » Sat, May 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

sublinear wrote: post #564

nunez wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol tell that to the actively working doctors, lawyers and c-suite execs living in the fanciest neighborhoods of their respective cities that own moderate to significant controlling portions of companies

> actively working doctors, lawyers and c-suite execs They do work in some sense. They manage resources and dispense expertise from time to time... > own moderate to significant controlling portions of companies ... but it's a gray area because they're also part of the owning class

Lol these personas work ALL OF THE TIME. Doctors have the weirdest shift hours out there, for example. You have a few that rake in serious cash while working like 20 hours a week, but that's not the norm in these professions.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#595

Post by gofreddygo » Sat, May 13, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

heleninboodler wrote: post #580

jwestbury wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shit deal. Microsoft's compensation is already well below competitors unless you're at the partner level or higher. They absolutely haemorrhage talent at lower levels, but hang on to low performances who just can't get a job elsewhere. Last year's increases were explicitly intended to bring Microsoft's pay closer to industry standards. By now saying, "Whoops, we accidentally gave you too much," it's clear that…

I'm talking about the basic math, absent all other factors. Given a choice between an N% raise two years in a row or a 2N% raise on the first year, the latter is more money. You choose, base salary is 100k and target raise is 10% two years in a row or 20% in the first year only. Do you want $120k + $120k or do you want $110k + $121k? This involves the assumption that the "no raise" year is a one-off event to offset t…

> N% raise two years in a row or a 2N% raise

Its more like

UPTO N% raise two years in a row or UPTO 2N% raise. In reality turned out to be N% raise + 0% raise.

like those ads in strip mall shops " upto 80% off"

* on select products

* conditions apply

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#596

Post by gofreddygo » Sun, May 14, 2023, 1:46 AM UTC

diversionfactor wrote: post #106

And yet, at exactly this time last year: "Microsoft to Nearly Double Salary Budgets, Expand Stock Compensation" https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensatio... So they are freezing after the doubling? This behavior seems skittish and an overreaction, especially given their continued profitability and high margins. Corporate executive behavior reminds me of interacting with ChatGPT: Exec: "What should…

Microsoft

to shareholders : "WE LOVE YOU". we will do whatever it takes, fire employees, cut corners, kill raises, other nasty things before we let our numbers slip. We know, you are the most hedged, least impacted in market downturns. we love you. No really.

to management : "we love you. you did the right thing. Here's more money"

to employees: We love you. macro economic uncertainties .. market conditions .. platform shift .. AI AI .. labor market .. no raises this year. We love you.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#597

Post by cdeutsch » Tue, May 16, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

jwestbury wrote: post #529

srj wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been so many layoffs that there is a glut of software engineers looking for jobs. The company's leadership knows that now, with labor supply up, they don't need to pay people the compensation they're currently paying. This is a way of reducing pay in real terms while not taking the more dramatic step of cutting wages. If things turn around again hopefully people remember this. This wasn't a shared hardship…

> The company's leadership knows that now, with labor supply up, they don't need to pay people the compensation they're currently paying. This isn't accurate and hasn't been for some time. Microsoft's engineers are lower-quality than their peers, because Microsoft has been offering lower compensation than their peers -- by a substantial amount -- for over a decade now. Maybe lower-level engineers don't really matter.…

> you're getting paid a lot less at Microsoft than you would be elsewhere

The one year (2016) I worked at Microsoft after an acquisition was more than any startup has paid me, even if you factor in "(stock options exit / years worked at start) + startup salary"

I was blown away and felt stupid for all the years I've been chasing startup lottery tickets.

Any of the big tech companies, including Microsoft, pay WAY more than your average programming gig. OH and they don't have career ceilings for individual contributors.

I'd happily work there again someday, and really wish someone would have told me how high the pay is at these big tech companies 20 years ago. Would have skipped the startup route.