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Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#71
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article or just the title? They mention the specific models the researchers were testing and note that increasing model size did not seem to offer much improvement on this metric. It also ends with a discussion of research into methods for improving performance on queries involving negation.

I read the article. The main point of the article, which is in the title, is directed at LLMs in general. They drew the wrong conclusion and made the title and main point too general. It actually would have seemed like a valid conclusion (although still too general) if the article came out some months ago. But GPT-4 and the very latest model versions from other companies show they were over-generalizing. Also the mod…

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Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#72
post #39

The title of the article is kinda the answer at the same time. Chatbots don't know what stuff is. They have no ability to gain knowledge out of learned text, just counting occurences of words in texts and giving them a weight, depending on the relationship in that text. They are just putting combinations of text together. And the concept of negating something related to something else kinda needs an understanding of…

It's a bit bizarre (but also very intriguing!) that you would bring up some of the older techniques of NLP, such as TFIDF, Latent Semantic indexing, GloVe, etc (at least that's what I assume you mean when you mention the severely outdated cooccurence type of models) when these clearly don't use any of that. Transformers have been hyped like crazy lately due to all of these advances, so why being up cooccurence unless you are knowledgeable about the older techniques... Which would mean you should know of the advances.

Anyway, if you do actually know about NLP, I would highly suggest looking at some of the recent work in GNNs (and obviously of Viswani 2017, etc - but you should've gotten that through hype). Transformers are GNNs (somewhat trivial ones, as they are sheaf NNs, but nonetheless) and GNNs are dynamic programmers, which has been shown via category theory (Velolickovic etc al). Hence, GNNs align with algorithmic reasoning, so in a way there is a proof already in the papers mentioned that these systems do reason (there's several, which are easy to find given what I've mentioned). Also, a group in Microsoft has a working on arxiv detailing the many different types of reasoning there are, and how GPT4 does on each type - spoiler - it's for the most part >80% on all the benchmarks, and does only about 6% lower than humans.

So all in all, your claims aren't really supported. If you want to hold the same sentiment of your statement though, you could say we're asking the wrong questions. That's probably true somehow, and will probably be where people will retreat to / move goal posts on next.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#73

What animals don’t have paws or lay eggs, but have wings? Work it out, step by step. ChatGPT (GPT-4): Sure, let's go through this step by step: First, you asked for animals that don't have paws. This would exclude mammals such as dogs, cats, bears, and so on, as these species have paws. Second, you specified animals that don't lay eggs. This eliminates a wide range of animals including all birds, most reptiles, and s…

While the answer landed on bats, ChatGPT kind of trips itself up in its explanations: 1. "Most winged creatures either have paws (like bats) or lay eggs (like birds and insects)" - but bats don't have paws. 2. "However, if we consider the term "wings" more broadly" - why do we need to consider the term "wings" more broadly? Nobody is arguing there is some definition of "wing" that would exclude bats. Bat wings evolve…

> "there are some species of bats that give live birth" - all species of bats give live birth

ChatGPT is being more logical to be honest.

It’s true, some species of bats give live birth.

To assume all bats give live birth might be committing the fallacy of induction.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you don’t force it with the “step-by-step” cheat code? I know what both 3.5-turbo and 4 say on my account, but I think I might be in some cost-effective inference holdout group because it’s always so dumb.

What's 375792*7385482? You can't use paper, or think about it more than a second. If you get it wrong, it's clear that you are not intelligent. See how ridiculous that sounds? CoT or tokens are not 'cheating' - they allow the system to have (as an analogy) a sheet of paper to work out the problem, instead of relying on a single step to jump through thousands of steps of reasoning. It's trained on the algorithmic reas…

I know I’m bad at multiplying six and seven digit integers in my head, and I don’t care at all if that makes me more or less intelligent (whatever the fuck that means) than a wrist watch.

What does that possibly have to do with GPT-4 shitting the bed if you draw the logic puzzle out of a deck of cards instead of cherry-picking and hinting it?

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#75
One time about 10-13 years ago, I was tasked to make an announcement in church about my group. It took the form of a testimonial; it was about a page long in English. I also needed to present the same testimonial at Spanish services, and so I began with Google Translate.

I had written a sentence like: "There is electricity in the air at our events." The Spanish translation came out as: "No hay electricidad en el aire..." and I was horrified. Thankfully, I was proofreading the whole document closely, and I was able to correct the glaring error before showtime, and there were no further glaring errors of this type.

But I was fairly flabbergasted that Translate would just gratuitously toss in such a negation when it was clearly wrong, and nothing about my sentence construction was complicated.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#76

What animals don’t have paws or lay eggs, but have wings? Work it out, step by step. ChatGPT (GPT-4): Sure, let's go through this step by step: First, you asked for animals that don't have paws. This would exclude mammals such as dogs, cats, bears, and so on, as these species have paws. Second, you specified animals that don't lay eggs. This eliminates a wide range of animals including all birds, most reptiles, and s…

and here's using bard, arriving at an almost correct conclusion:

What animals don’t have paws or lay eggs, but have wings? Work it out, step by step.

Here are the steps on how to find animals that don't have paws or lay eggs, but have wings:

1.Define the terms. What do we mean by "paws"? What do we mean by "eggs"? What do we mean by "wings"?

2. Identify animals that meet the criteria. There are a few animals that meet the criteria. One example is a bat. Bats have wings, but they don't have paws. They also don't lay eggs. Another example is a butterfly. Butterflies have wings, but they don't have paws. They also don't lay eggs.

3. Confirm that the animals meet the criteria. We can confirm that the animals meet the criteria by looking at their anatomy. Bats have wings that are made of skin and bone. They also have claws on their feet, but these are not paws. Butterflies have wings that are made of scales. They also have legs, but these are not paws.

4. Draw conclusions. Based on our findings, we can conclude that there are a few animals that meet the criteria of having wings, but not paws or eggs. These animals include bats and butterflies.

Here are some additional details about bats and butterflies:

Bats: Bats are mammals that are able to fly. They have wings that are made of skin and bone. Bats use their wings to fly at night, when they hunt for food. Bats are important pollinators and they also help to control insect populations.

Butterflies: Butterflies are insects that have wings that are made of scales. Butterflies use their wings to fly during the day. Butterflies are important pollinators and they also help to spread seeds.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#77
post #14

Does this increase anyone else's sense that LLMs are actually modeling something similar to the way humans think? It certainly does for me. I find that negations/conjugations of negations are surprisingly difficult for to parse. Beyond two negations at most, I can feel myself having to switch into "code" mode, where I'm explicitly casing out the booleans, to understand them. Obviously the examples given in the articl…

Yes, subconscious/emotions don't have concept of negation, they do have fear, projections of pain etc. instead.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#78
post #17

At this point, any article that makes claims about "LLMs" rather than specific model versions lacks credibility. The current version of GPT-4 is very different from most existing LLMs (including the previous version of ChatGPT). The next version release will also be different. Google just released PaLM 2 publicly. It is significantly better than what people saw with the initial Bard versions. They have a code-generat…

> All of these will perform differently on the negation issue.

That's a bit of a cop-out, but the classical and logical (in the mathematical sense) way to do it, is to have a feature that represents negation. Embeddings don't work like this, so it's quite possible that the presence of negation gets pushed aside in the processing of the answer, simply because other features matter more.

It's also to be expected that such models will have problems with similar abstract concepts that have more effect on the interpretation than their "physical" presence would suggest, such as nested existential qualifiers, and consequently logical proof. By enlarging the model, you can fake it a bit.

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#79
post #14

Does this increase anyone else's sense that LLMs are actually modeling something similar to the way humans think? It certainly does for me. I find that negations/conjugations of negations are surprisingly difficult for to parse. Beyond two negations at most, I can feel myself having to switch into "code" mode, where I'm explicitly casing out the booleans, to understand them. Obviously the examples given in the articl…

"Don't think of a pink elephant" comes to mind with this stuff as well, where telling someone not to think about something causes them to think about it.

That's different. That's a meta-linguistic joke, that works because we can't read that sentence without at least briefly thinking of a pink elephant (for some value of "thinking" anyway).

Re: Language models still struggle with the concept of negation

#80

This is one of my favorite test cases: Prompt: Here is a riddle. It is a common riddle but with some changes that make it more difficult. You are an alien that will live for at least 10000 years. You have no sense of temperature. you can not feel hot or cold. you have eyes and can see. you are in a house. downstairs are 3 light switches that control 3 light bulbs that are upstairs. Each light bulb will last for exact…

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a really poorly worded riddle. Or just a bad riddle. Given what you stated, the solution would be walk upstairs look at the 3 bulbs, walk downstairs switch one of the switches. Walk upstairs see which bulb changed on/off. Repeat for the other two switches. This takes roughly 5 mins rather than your solution which takes 3 years.

You just passed the test that you're not LLM.
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