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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#451
post #437

Baltimore has a police force out of their control (it's in state hands) but they still have to pay for it. This has resulted in massive retention and recruitment issues, and some of the cops who did stick around were on the take -- specifically the Gun Trace Task Force, home of the locally-famous Jump Out Boys. Baltimore is an independent city, so it can't rely on county assistance for anything. Furthermore, state la…

> Furthermore, state law prevents Baltimore (and only Baltimore) from annexing suburbs to increase the tax base

St. Louis is the other major independent city. The state doesn't restrict its ability to annex suburbs, but it hardly matters. It doesn't happen, anyway, and it almost certainly wouldn't in Baltimore, either. Who wants either city's problems?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#452

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

How can you discuss incarceration rates without discussing crime rates?

The more crime, the more criminals. The more criminals, the more prisoners.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the US has more people who commit violent crimes.

Why is that?

One thing I noticed is that lax laws create more criminals. For instance, on the D.C. metro they used to take fare evasion very seriously, and you almost never would see people jumping the fare gate for the metro. Then a few years ago, the Council decided to decriminalize fare evasion. No you see tons of people just openly stepping over the gate every day. If they ever want to tackle the problem, they're going to have to have _much_ more enforcement, because now there's probably 100x or 1000x the fare jumpers than there used to be.

Many places in the U.S. allow a certain level of criminality, which not only encourages criminal behavior, but means the people involved only face consequences when they do something truly horrendous that brings a long sentence. Let a teenager walk free when they steal cars, and they end up killing the next person they steal a car from (happened here recently). Never charge a stalker when he assaults his stalking victim multiple times while on probation, and he eventually kills her (also happened here recently). Let someone simply walk away from the court after being convicted of an armed robbery, and they'll eventually murder an innocent (again - happened here recently).

It can take years to undo this. We started moving in the right direction - cracked down on crime, brought the crime rates down, which started bringing down the incarceration rate. But then people got impatient and wanted undo everything, with many big promises that never materialized. Now crime rates are up, and we're probably going to end up with more incarceration.

Many other countries have lower incarceration stats. But in my experience, the people in those countries are often shocked when they learn that in nice neighborhoods of the U.S., large groups of men can walk into a store in the middle of the day, openly fill up bags of stolen merchandise in front of everyone, and simply walk out with no consequences. The base level of crime that's accepted in many places in the U.S. is simply much higher than in many other countries.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#454
post #437

Baltimore has a police force out of their control (it's in state hands) but they still have to pay for it. This has resulted in massive retention and recruitment issues, and some of the cops who did stick around were on the take -- specifically the Gun Trace Task Force, home of the locally-famous Jump Out Boys. Baltimore is an independent city, so it can't rely on county assistance for anything. Furthermore, state la…

> Where is Baltimore supposed to get the funding to meet this increase in demand for city services?

That is for American politics to figure out. This is an American political issue and blaming Korean car makers is absurd.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#455
post #441

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

I flew back from Baltimore yesterday. It's a great town. It's far, far from a failed city. I've been to failed cities. Baltimore isn't it. Are there things that could be improved? Sure. Roll up them sleeves.

[flagged]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#456
post #351
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same department of justice that continues to prosecute a case against Assange? I'm nonplussed. Boris Becker (UK), Amanda Knox (IT), speak to prison brutality (and those are well known international personages.) Ukraine: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/08/ukraine-four-... Mexico: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/mexicos-federal-prisons-a-... Spain: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-7…

I linked the DOJ and not the Equal Justice Initiative because I thought they would be less likely to be seen as partisan or politically motivated. But here’s EJI on the same issue: https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/ and Harvard Political Review making a similar argument to my top post (that US prisons don’t adequately rehabilitate): https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/ And since you linked…

Rehabilitation doesn’t work. The modern sociological study of crime and criminals began at the latest in the 70s. They’ve been looking for a reliably working method of rehabilitation for 50 years and have nothing. Prisons works fine as incapacitation, keeping criminals warehoused until they age out of their prime criminal years but rehabilitation doesn’t work.

> Prisoner rehabilitation does not work, says former prisons boss

> Sir Martin Narey says focus should be on treating inmates with decency and dignity

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/29/prisoner-reh...

> So far, prison inmate rehab isn’t working

> California’s prisons are supposed to be rehabilitating inmates, not merely warehousing them, but a new report from the state auditor says it’s not effectively reducing recidivism among those released from the system.

https://calmatters.org/commentary/2019/02/so-far-prison-inma...

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#457

Maybe this is naive, but wouldn't the solution be not to sell the cars in Baltimore? It's not that large of a market and there are local car manufacturers there as well. Maybe require in the user agreement not to drive to Baltimore either, similar to the rental car agreements that don't allow for the cars to be driven to Mexico?

You can't legally purchase a firearm in Baltimore..

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#458
post #437

Baltimore has a police force out of their control (it's in state hands) but they still have to pay for it. This has resulted in massive retention and recruitment issues, and some of the cops who did stick around were on the take -- specifically the Gun Trace Task Force, home of the locally-famous Jump Out Boys. Baltimore is an independent city, so it can't rely on county assistance for anything. Furthermore, state la…

>Furthermore, state law prevents Baltimore (and only Baltimore) from annexing suburbs to increase the tax base, which is how literally every city in America grows.

Not doing that is a very good thing in the long run: https://www.strongtowns.org/

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#459

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

I've found that the people who complain most loudly about crime also tend to take great offense to the idea of government trying "to change the behavior of the population". It seems that this is viewed as an encroachment on freedoms.
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