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How AI knows things no one told it

scientificamerican.com

41–50 of 140 posts

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#41
post #4

Exceptionally unconvinced that it's more than statistics, and frankly unhappy that pop Sci media is being this uncritical of claims it's emergent intelligence.

This is a deeply incurious take.

Yesterday I wrote a Python script, used dis.dis(code) to output its bytecode, and gave the bytecode to GPT-4. From the bytecode, it correctly decompiled the exact script I'd written (python bytecode includes variable names, so this was possible), explained what the code does, and explained what the code would run output if it was executed, all correctly.

It doesn't have access to a Python interpreter. It simulated one, both to decompile the bytecode and to predict its output. That's reasoning.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#42
post #4

Exceptionally unconvinced that it's more than statistics, and frankly unhappy that pop Sci media is being this uncritical of claims it's emergent intelligence.

We just had this discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35868065 . It does appear to be a case of mis-used measurements rather than true emergence.

This is a misunderstanding of the researchers' claim, for which I blame them rather than you.

You are using their study to claim that LLMs can not learn and reason about novel tasks. Their study doesn't make any claims about what LLMs can and can't do. The study says that when it appears that LLMs suddenly became able to reason about novel tasks, what actually happened is that the ability of the LLM to perform reasoning improved gradually and smoothly during its training until it could do those things. They are not saying that LLMs don't have emergent capabilities: they are saying that those capabilities emerged at a continuous rate rather than a discontinuous one.

Do you see?

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#43
Let for the sake of argument, assume that the LLM is truly sapience. Then this would be the first alien intelligence we have ever encountered. All life and intelligence we have seen before were organic, carbon-based life, including the most distant and unintuitive ones like the cephalopods, cetaceans, and primates. Even now we are still arguing whether these creatures are intelligent or they are just "not there" yet. We refuse to acknowledge their higher reasoning capacity regardless of evidences like rudimentary communication, social structure, tool use, etc. And these are things sharing >70% similarity to us.

An LLM is so different and alien we would literally incapable of imagining their thought process even if they are pummeling us with evidences of their intelligence. It is just how it is. So I think it is futile and even foolish to try to quantify or create criteria for "intelligence" when discussing AI. Let it be and accept it for what it is: something we humans have created that can do lots of stuff.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the part of the article that the parent comment is disagreeing with is: > “It is certainly much more than a stochastic parrot, and it certainly builds some representation of the world—although I do not think that it is quite like how humans build an internal world model,” says Yoshua Bengio, an AI researcher at the University of Montreal. > At a conference at New York University in March, philosopher Raphaël…

But that isn’t claiming that it isn’t based on statistics, it’s just saying that the analysis being done isn’t shallow, which is clearly true

I think to some extent it's using the attention to pay attention to which "statistics" to pay attention to.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it not wrong, it's actually in our best interests to do so past a certain level of agency, embodiment and unsupervised tool control. If the machine acts like it has emotions, runs forever(this kind of agency is already possible to implement though expensive) and can use tools, then treat it like it doesn't have emotions at your own peril. When the machine can "hit you back" (not necessarily physically of…

> You can see glimpses of this with bing. Oh please. The human gives the verbose output meaning by projecting onto it. You're clearly letting your emotions run wild. It's a fucking LLM .

Real word actions and consequences give the words meaning. If you're rude to Bing, the conversation will end. You can keep typing but it won't respond.

Searching the web and ending conversations are the only two actions Bing can currently do so what i'm saying is less applicable for now. But humanity is gearing up to give more and more control of more and more tools to increasingly powerful LLMs. Hell Bing is scheduled a bump in tools in the coming weeks.

Hate to break it to you but "it's not real [insert property]" is not a shield. Not when you allow the machines to interact with the real world.

If your words to [insert LLM] guide responses that perform actions detrimental to you then those actions are no less real or detrimental because you've deluded yourself into thinking "it's not real understanding" is an intelligent argument.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#46
post #29

I think it's a bit of hubris to demand we explain how LLMs can be as intelligent as they are when we barely understand how the ball of meat inside our skulls can be either. We know that neural networks can simulate any function, given enough parameters. Maybe we've simply found the number of parameters needed to simulate the function of "human level intelligence". That should humble us, to know that there is some num…

The physical human brain has 86 billion neurons with up to 10,000 connections each. However they are somewhat structured, e.g. the seven layers of the cerebral cortex, reducing the arbitrariness of connections. So say the connectome has 100 trillion parameters.

The bain also has a bunch of other cells that dont appear to encode information. They may supply structural scaffolding and chemicals to mediate neuron function.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#47
post #9
post #4

Exceptionally unconvinced that it's more than statistics, and frankly unhappy that pop Sci media is being this uncritical of claims it's emergent intelligence.

I agree that it's probably not anything more than statistics, but why can't statistics alone generate emergent phenomena? What convinces you that the human brain isn't also just statistics at a massive scale?

> why can't statistics alone generate emergent phenomena?

because there is no generative mechanism in the definition of "statistics" with which to generate anything.

> What convinces you that the human brain isn't also just statistics at a massive scale?

Because the human brain created the concept of "statistics" so if statistics created the human brain this would mean statistics created statistics, leading to infinite regress.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#48

A missing part that AI needs is a experimental way to verify its results. In some contexts, like math, this is entirely possible because it does not involve manipulation of real world objects. For example, i asked GTP-4, In the context of optimization, does the generalized assignment problem satisfy total unimodularity. Then experimental way would be to look up the formulas of the integer program on the internet or i…

This is the answer I got. with this system prompt "You are an intelligent PhD processor explaining topics to your PhD students."

In the context of optimization, does the generalized assignment problem satisfy total unimodularity?

Assistant:

The generalized assignment problem (GAP) is an NP-hard optimization problem that can be formulated as an integer linear program. The problem involves assigning a set of tasks to a set of agents, subject to capacity constraints, with the goal of maximizing the total profit or minimizing the total cost. The integer linear programming formulation of GAP is as follows:

Objective function:

Maximize ∑_(i=1)^m ∑_(j=1)^n c_ij * x_ij

Subject to:

1. ∑_(j=1)^n a_ij * x_ij ≤ b_i, for all i (capacity constraints for each agent)

2. ∑_(i=1)^m x_ij = 1, for all j (each task must be assigned to exactly one agent)

3. x_ij ∈ {0, 1}, for all i and j (binary assignment variables)

Total unimodularity (TU) is a property of a matrix that guarantees that the linear programming relaxation of an integer linear program will result in integer optimal solutions. If the constraint matrix is totally unimodular, you can solve the linear programming relaxation and obtain an integer solution without using specialized integer programming algorithms.

In the case of the generalized assignment problem, the constraint matrix does not satisfy

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can see glimpses of this with bing. Oh please. The human gives the verbose output meaning by projecting onto it. You're clearly letting your emotions run wild. It's a fucking LLM .

Real word actions and consequences give the words meaning. If you're rude to Bing, the conversation will end. You can keep typing but it won't respond. Searching the web and ending conversations are the only two actions Bing can currently do so what i'm saying is less applicable for now. But humanity is gearing up to give more and more control of more and more tools to increasingly powerful LLMs. Hell Bing is schedul…

So? This is a guardrail added by a Microsoft employee, mate. After their earlier dabblings in AI outputting bigotry and general toxicity, someone in their wisdom saw the sense to try and prevent going down a negative conversation path, hence all the edge lords on Reddit offering prompts to "jailbreak" an LLM and bypass the guardrails, which then get patched by a human being not long after.

You're projecting so much meaning onto something that is functioning as designed by throwing a sentiment var into the calculation, just like you can measure "sentiment" with social media analysis tools to get a feel for which way the wind is blowing or which of the millions of tweets at your brand might be worth prioritizing.

Do you really believe you've thus offended an LLM? That is delusional.

Re: How AI knows things no one told it

#50
post #38
post #4

Exceptionally unconvinced that it's more than statistics, and frankly unhappy that pop Sci media is being this uncritical of claims it's emergent intelligence.

The article isn't doing anything more then quoting experts in the field. From the article: “It is certainly much more than a stochastic parrot, and it certainly builds some representation of the world—although I do not think that it is quite like how humans build an internal world model,” says Yoshua Bengio, an AI researcher at the University of Montreal. If you remain unconvinced then the only conclusion I can make…

You keep using that word "expert" and I don't doubt they're experts in machine learning, GAN and NNs but at this point what we're looking for is experts in what intelligence IS and the problem is .. nobody knows.

There's no underlying theory of mind here. There's a lot of opinion and belief .. mainly in emergent behaviour or properties of scale.

My problem is that I'm old enough to have been a child during the years of the lighthill report, and the AI winter(s) which followed. I've seen too many prior claims that the magic was being seen.

I admit, what this cycle of GPT and LLMs do is pretty bloody impressive. I don't see inductive reasoning, directed drive or any evidence of what I think intelligence is. I do see good approximations. But that winds up in "well it's a different kind of intelligence" which I find unsatisfying.

I hate analogies. But I'm constantly reminded of one person acts at the Edinburgh Festival fringe "channeling" shakespear or dickens in dialogue. They're great, but they don't write new shakespear. I don't see any act of creation in this stuff, any massive inferential leap in large problems. I do see massive improvements in some things like diagnostic image analysis and that's heartening, but there's a light yearg gap between image analysis of cancerous cell forms in xrays and being "alive" as a mind.

I totally get I do anything but define what intelligence is, and for a good reason: nobody knows yet. We're in the meese report "I know it when I see it" territory disagreeing if we are seeing it. (But about intelligence, not pornography).

I don't know what intelligence is. Dolphins and apes have some. Elephants and pigs too. They display affection and preplanned behaviour, empathy, memory, a sense of future, ant hills less so although some have argued rhetorically the anthill has will even if individual ants do not.

I certainly don't think animals inability to speak makes them "unintelligent" but there's a qualitative and quantitative difference between them and us, humans. And I continue to believe (and I stress believe, not have evidence or scientific proof) there are no signs of latent intelligence in what we're seeing.

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