I can't speak for any one else, but I'm sure glad I decided to learn rails about 4 years ago...It forced me to take several detours and learn things like ruby, css, html some linux admin etc
I would heartily recommend rails to all beginners
Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
21–30 of 45 posts
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#22These theories all miss the basic point. Yes, Rails is not a good way for a beginner to learn proper professional programming. The proper way to do that is to write nice, fairly-mathematical code in Scheme or Python until you understand recursion, algorithms, etc. But learning to become a professional programmer isn't most people's goal. Rails is the fastest way to go from "I want a webapp that..." to "I have a webap…
I'm not talking about 'professional programming', really—I'm talking about being able to achieve a reasonable outcome in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not even interested in people becoming good programmers. My point is that people who will spend the time to learn the hard parts will benefit more from learning from the lowest level that makes sense to them, rather than trying to learn Ruby and the CLI alongside Ra…
I think the truth is that most of those people aren't cut out to be programmers.
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#23Rails isn't for beginners, but neither is any web development framework that you intend to use seriously. Sure you can use Sinatra or Padrino in the Ruby stable to get a web app out, but if you want a medium to large scale, comprehensive application, you'll almost inevitably go with Rails (again, the Ruby stable) if only for the gem ecosystem.
I've just entered my 13th month of Ruby/Rails learning coming from an HTML background (I say with my tongue in my cheek), and had no prior database or OOP exposure. A LOT of time since I've started has been wasted, where days and weeks would go by without me touching Ruby literature or exercises, but here I am. I wouldn't say I'm a noob anymore, and I won't say I'm great, but I've definitely got enough of a grasp to build things with it.
If you're going to go ahead and skip the advice of the OP's post, then let me give you this advice, be persistent. As steep as that curve can be, just keep at it, and don't expect to have "the web app that does..." ready any time soon.
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#24Enterprise Rails applications aren't for beginners. But this pervasive attitude that all of Rails is beyond beginners is an abdication of responsibility.
If a newbie still can't build a Rails blog in ten minutes, let's address that. "Rails is not for beginners" is shorthand for "I can't be bothered to support beginners"
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#25Complete BS. Of course it is! Here was my response the last time someone posted an article like this:
http://southpolesteve.com/rails-is-for-beginners
Inspiration is what drives us to learn more on our own and get through the tough parts. This is what Rails does so well. Look at the way someone's eyes light up after running rails g scaffold for the first time and playing in their very own web app.
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#26Complete BS. Of course it is! Here was my response the last time someone posted an article like this:
http://southpolesteve.com/rails-is-for-beginners
Inspiration is what drives us to learn more on our own and get through the tough parts. This is what Rails does so well. Look at the way someone's eyes light up after running rails g scaffold for the first time and playing in their very own web app.
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#27Is any framework suitable for beginners? (assuming "beginner" refers to programming)
I could be way off and I'm sure there are better programmers than me who did it differently, but I'm of the opinion the order should be (roughly):
- Programming basics (assignment, data types, conditionals, iteration, REPL, recursion, etc.)
- OO principles (unless you're certain you won't use any OO languages, unlikely)
- Database CRUD operations & SQL (you both appreciate and understand Rails/AR better after writing your own SQL and doing mysql_query() in PHP)
- At least a cursory understand of HTTP
- Then maybe get into a lightweight framework like Sinatra or Web.py
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not talking about 'professional programming', really—I'm talking about being able to achieve a reasonable outcome in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not even interested in people becoming good programmers. My point is that people who will spend the time to learn the hard parts will benefit more from learning from the lowest level that makes sense to them, rather than trying to learn Ruby and the CLI alongside Ra…
I think the truth is that most of those people aren't cut out to be programmers.
A while back there was a post about how great http://teamtreehouse.com 's tutorials are. I added the following comment:
"But don't you think in an industry like software development, you need to be able to self-educate. Software just moves too fast. So a person that needs hand-holding is not going to 'get' what it takes to be a good programmer."
I got downvoted for it =)
So I think people are all over the map when it comes to how to learn and how to teach. But in the end, I maintain that you only get good by being self-motivated and driven - no other way.
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#29As a n00b trying to learn how to program, I completely agree with your points about Ruby on Rails. After getting in over my head going through a few rails tutorials, I took a step back and realized that while I could create really basic web apps and go through the keystrokes to write code and commit to Git, I didn't understand what the hell I was doing from a conceptual level. It was rote code copying from a tutorial…
Flask is another Python Web framework. It's simpler and easier get started with.
Try going through the Flask tutorial (http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/) and see if it's easier to follow.
Here's some resources for getting started with Python (http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-learn-to-program-in-Python/an...).
And if you're a total newb and need to go over basic programming concepts in a simple language, try "Tcl for Web Nerds" (http://philip.greenspun.com/tcl/) -- it's what many Web developers cut their teeth on in the late 90s.
For database stuff, check out "SQL for Web Nerds" (http://philip.greenspun.com/sql/).
Re: Rails is Definitely Not for Beginners
#30In other news, programming is CHALLENGING.
Not everyone can learn it and building something that is useful requires skill and experience.
Doesn't matter the language, toolkit or number of tutorials at hand - building software is a difficult profession. You can't learn how to practice law or be a doctor by spending a month reading tutorials - why would anyone expect this to be the case in software development?
My path to web development was as follows: learn how to think properly (BA History) ;) -> learn software development basics (2 year certificate in Software development, primarilly Java) -> First job maintaining Basic (BBx) code for application built in 80's -> contractor working with prior built custom PHP code -> Full time developer working with Symfony, Drupal and now Rails. Not to mention all the basic sys admin knowledge I've picked up (apache, zeus, perl, shell scripting, networking, etc...)
If I had walked into Rails right off the bat, I would have had no idea what was going on. Having a solid understanding of Java servlets, MVC in general and 4 years of prior programming experience meant I picked Rails up rather quickly. Rails isn't my barrier, it's ruby, and syntax isn't' much a barrier for a good programmer.
One thing I wish I had was a better background in Computer Science or Computer Engineering. The actual physical reality of how computers work often baffles me and having knowledge of how a CPU works at a base level would definitely make me better at my job. As would a real knowledge of algorithm design.