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The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

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161–170 of 244 posts

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#161

They are a discount buyer, so it is generally a bad deal to use them and you basically shouldn't unless you have no other option. It is similar to getting a pay day loan, or selling stuff to pawn shop or keeping a balance on your VISA. You are going to get a bad deal. I don't really know what to do about it. How can you ensure people are educated enough to know that a discount buyer is a buyer who will under pay for…

Legislating away discount buyers would be like legislating away payday lenders. The only thing accomplished would be to leave a hole in the market which will be filled by shady loan sharks.

1) Professional buyers are defined as any person not kin or well known to the seller that has bought another property within the last 3 years.

2) Professional buyers contracts must allow a 30 day cooling off period in which the seller may back away from the agreement without punishment.

3) The 30 day cooling off period is initiated by the buyer prominently posting the offer in the local MLS service or similar prominent and accessible system. The buyer is responsible for ensuring any alternative offers during this period are conveyed to the seller.

4) The buyer and seller may avoid the 30 day cooling period by having a certified appraiser conduct an appraisal of the property and executing the sale at no less than 6% below appraised value.

I could throw in a couple other clauses in there to take care of people "brokering" regular sales to straw buyer or about requiring disclosures that recommend sellers consult with family and/or homeowner advocacy group within the 30 day cooling off period, but that is the crux of it.

This wouldn't eliminate the industry, but it would limit the actions of the worst offenders. Offers dramatically below market value should get counters. The worst consequence seems like it would be that the seller will get absolutely swarmed by realtors trying to convince them how much more money they would get with them.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listing Realtors (TM) rely on people's misunderstandings to get them to sign those lopsided agency agreements in the first place (3% of a capital asset for setting up a key box, taking mediocre pictures, and writing a description of the property!), so those less critical misunderstandings are just part and parcel of their market. You should never skimp hiring a real estate attorney, as they will actually go to bat fo…

I'm sorry you've had such bad experience with realtors... just some thoughts: -- My experience with real estate attorneys has been as mixed as your experiences with realtors. Some know what they are doing, many do not. Many care about billable hours just as much as the outcome. YMMV. -- Some realtors care about volume, and some care about their fiduciary responsibilities to your business. If they are actually a Realt…

> If I make you an extra $50K and I get $10K for that service, I've earned my money.

That's totally fair on the surface.

But it's also impossible to demonstrate. Nobody can know if the house would've sold for 50K less if a different (less competent) realtor sold it, or if the owner sold it on craigslist or wherever.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree in general... that said, those standardized contracts change regularly, often because someone sued someone else leading to updating those contracts. So a real estate agent who stays up-to-date on contract issues can make a difference. As you point out - where an agent will really shine is market information and negotiating. I saved a client a ton of money last night because I out-negotiated the other side.…

> I saved a client a ton of money last night because I out-negotiated the other side You’re in the business so this might seen brash but it’s not meant to be. I’m just a pretty experienced buyer/seller. The assumption I have to make is 1) buyer couldn’t have negotiated that themselves (I happen to be a good negotiator) and 2) further negotiated to keep the buyer’s agent portion of the commission (it’s a standard sell…

If you've done a number of deals and watch the market closely - you are right, chances are you can get deals done on your own without me. Where I benefit savvy clients though is mostly in a) current market information b) current contract information c) advance / non-public information d) project management e) resources / referrals / connections f) sometimes even with a savvy buyer and seller, it helps to have someone in the middle to bring the deal together, Ie: someone has to do the paperwork and make the trains run on time.

Where I work, there's added complexity to the market in part by the variety of properties and the shortage of skilled agents. Of the licensed agents in the area, only about 30% are actually "full-time" agents, and of that 30% very few will do much outside standard residential work - and we've got several types of specialty agriculture, bare land, commercial, and we are on a state line. Our forms in both states have been going through a surprising amount of volatility the past few years, as have what I'll call "practices", Ie: what's considered normal buyer / seller responsibilities and negotiating chips. For example - with one of these practices I saw a way that our area was behind the times, I started doing things differently and it put my clients in a negotiating position such that my sellers were getting a much higher return relative to comparable properties.

I agree on negotiating skills - unfortunately, the public seem to pick agents based on who they know socially rather than on professional abilities. Finally, to your point about negotiating - one of the challenges for many buyers (and sellers) is that they really don't know the value of a property or where it should sell. So for example many buyers (assuming they aren't in a competitive situation - in which case it's a different set of strategies) will offer some stupidly low number in hopes to get the seller to come back with a reduced price. It's "let's split the difference" negotiating, rather than a data-driven approach. So for example when we go into a negotiation, we don't just index off of the asking price, but rather we've done a market analysis (as a example) of our own and thus have arrived at what we believe to be the fair market price. From that, anything below that number is gravy. So when I not only negotiate below the asking price, but below where we believe the property should fairly sell, then we've really won for the client. Or likewise when I'm on the sellers side, there's a whole slew of ways I set us up pre-market to put us in the best possible position. Even knowing how to read the possibly negotiating strategies for a property, or what "levers and dials" are available in a negotiation isn't something that the general public understands - if you've done a number of deals on your own, you may have developed this expertise.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, never sign a buyer representation contract. FWIW: In one of the states where I do business, it is about to become law that we have to have these with clients. I expect it to be a total clusterfuck.

Required to sale or show? I should clarify that I’ve usually signed and amended it during pend stage so agent gets commission and has documentation that I’ve agreed to all the terms within. I also limit it to just the property in question so if things fall apart it does too. Requiring it to show, seems like a mess that will slow things down or people will just ignore it/backdate it like they do so much already to bea…

We're kinda waiting to see what form it will take, but there seems to be a belief we are headed toward a required to show type scenario. I think it was one of your earlier comments that said something I completely agree with - clients should always have the ability to walk away from an agent they no longer want to work with, and should not feel pressured into signing an agreement that might create a binding relationship they don't want. Already we're strongly encouraged by our state legal advisor and MLS best practices to use buyer agency agreements - but I (mostly) don't for exactly the reasons you stated - if a client wants to work with me, they will, and if they don't, a piece of paper shouldn't force them. The general public is scared / distrustful enough of Realtors, and now we're supposed to put this legal document in their face the moment we meet them? Sounds like a good way to further create distrust and alienation.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#165
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rock Island, Illinois was listed on Salary.com several times as one of the five least expensive places to live in the U.S. Our winters are not very pleasant, but if you like to ski, there is plenty to indulge within a two hour drive.

> if you like to ski, there is plenty to indulge within a two hour drive. I've been to Davenport several times, my ex was from CR, and I went to school about two hours north of there... and I don't recall anywhere that you could actually ski without driving far north into MN or WI. What am I missing?

I used to go to Sundown yearly, a long time ago. I'm not saying it's great, but I did learn to ski there.

https://www.sundownmtn.com/the-mountain/snow-report-trail-ma...

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#166
post #33

I wish more older Americans understood how these people really work. My parents live in a neighborhood that has gone down hill through the years. They called up a company who did this kind of home buying. Usual visual inspections and the like went on with a quote being issued. They saw the amount was a little over the remaining mortgage which was less than the market value of the house. They decided to ahead of time…

Elderly people need an 811 (the service you call to check for buried hazards) for shit like this. Basically a free service they can call to verify if something is a scam or not.

Not just the elderly, and this would very much help with online scams, as well.

Case in point: my mother, who I would not consider elderly, and who's skeptical enough to pretty much assume everything is a scam, yet wasted a fair bit of time on a scam email from "PayPal".

She doesn't have a PayPal account, and, for reasons, doesn't want one. So she was certain the email was part of a scam. What she did not know was whether it was phishing email from a scammer — her words, so, yes, she's generally well aware of the practice; again, not elderly — or the result of a scammer attempting to set up a PayPal account in her name (in order to defraud her friends and family, perhaps).

So she went to PayPal.com, emailed, called, etc., and they weren't willing to confirm or deny whether they may or may not have sent her an email concerning an account that may or may not exist in her name, for privacy reasons, unless she was first able to log into this hypothetical account that an unknown third party may or may not have set up in her name[1].

She then showed me the email, and it was immediately obvious to me that it was low-effort scammer spam of the "From: PayPal Security " variety.

Even if only useful for trivial cases like these, it would be helpful if some government agency or trustworthy nonprofit would set up a well-known mechanism where anyone could forward potential scam emails and receive a prompt, semi-automated "obviously a scam / not necessarily a scam, but still exercise caution as follows; …" result.

This would obviously need to be set up with measures in place to minimize its usefulness as a fraud-detection oracle for scammers themselves, but still seems like a worthwhile cause.

[1] I'm not trying to call out PayPal for bad behavior here: while they could have been a bit more helpful by offering useful, general advice, this is otherwise a reasonable response to what, from their perspective, was an admitted non-account holder requesting information about someone else's account in violation of their policies (and possibly the law).

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#167
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry you've had such bad experience with realtors... just some thoughts: -- My experience with real estate attorneys has been as mixed as your experiences with realtors. Some know what they are doing, many do not. Many care about billable hours just as much as the outcome. YMMV. -- Some realtors care about volume, and some care about their fiduciary responsibilities to your business. If they are actually a Realt…

> If I make you an extra $50K and I get $10K for that service, I've earned my money. That's totally fair on the surface. But it's also impossible to demonstrate. Nobody can know if the house would've sold for 50K less if a different (less competent) realtor sold it, or if the owner sold it on craigslist or wherever.

It's difficult, but not impossible, and here's how... I could give you at least five case studies from the past year in which specific things I did created those kinds of gains / savings for a client. It's basically standard CMA stuff - show comparable properties, where they sold, where we sold (or had our offer accepted) and demonstrate the tactics that got to that point. Do that across a group of agents and you quickly have a comparative model.

Now - sometimes there are emotion-driven data outliers. For example, sometimes you will see someone overpay in cash for a property that could not have appraised at that same value. So again, using data you can account for those scenarios as well. Point being - all that sales data is available and you can pretty accurately create a model of which agents overall are having success not only selling properties, but the degree to which their clients are winning negotiations. I'd argue that even if an agent was being "overruled" by their clients - even that would be interesting, as it would show that their clients were not actually listening to the negotiating advise offered by that agent (IE: the data could actually demonstrate that there are communication / trust issues between the agent and their clients).

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#168
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you like to ski, there is plenty to indulge within a two hour drive. I've been to Davenport several times, my ex was from CR, and I went to school about two hours north of there... and I don't recall anywhere that you could actually ski without driving far north into MN or WI. What am I missing?

I used to go to Sundown yearly, a long time ago. I'm not saying it's great, but I did learn to ski there. https://www.sundownmtn.com/the-mountain/snow-report-trail-ma...

Well there you go - see I learned today there's a ski hill in Dubuque!

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you like to ski, Illinois is close to the last place you should be living.

We are within an 8-10 hour drive from some of the best skiing in the Midwest

And some of the best diving in the Midwest too

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate agent here...While there are many agents that hold themselves to the standard that the National Association of Realtors has documented in their code, one of the root problems is that state agencies are negligent in enforcing rules and investigating fraud. For example, I know a fellow agent who had documented proof of another agent committing a fraud that did approx $400K in damage to a client - and the st…

What is it you anticipate happening that will trigger the change you describe in coming years? We were grossed out by our agent a decade ago, and when we went with a different agent (who came highly recommended by a neighbor whose house she sold) in a more recent transaction we were met with even more dishonesty than before.

>(who came highly recommended by a neighbor whose house she sold)

I had a neighbor once tell me how much they loved their agent, and before I could stop myself I blurted out "I can't believe they stayed sober long enough to get your deal done!" It's a sad reality that while agents get to know who is trustworthy / skilled, because we deal with each other every day, the public seldom really gets the whole picture. I think it's worse in large metro areas because there are thousands of agents - so doing your research is hard. I assure you - national brands have very little to do with quality either.

If I'm being really crass - I find a lot of people pick their agents like it is a beauty contest. They pick based on age, looks, they go to the same church we do, our kids are at the same school, etc. And for a lot of people, whether they feel good about the agent has more to do with if they are now "friends" then if there was actually a successful business outcome.

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