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The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

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Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#51
I bought a local house in 2004 that suffered a failed furnace in deep winter (with great damage) for $17k. I put another $10k into it for repairs, and rented it.

I started getting postcards around 2012: "I/we want to buy your house." I have a pile of them. None of them offered more than $20k.

I had pandemic tenant problems; they didn't pay during the last six months, and the damage was substantial. I repaired the damage, then sold it on contract for $60k; I'm done with rental property.

I'm still getting calls and postcards.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#52
Reminds me of recently reading an opinion about how thrifting has been ruined by the upper middle class. The person expressed how thrifting is a necessary need when growing up poor and how the trend of thrifting in popularity among middle class has reduced the quantity of quality items to basically none. Quality of life I believe is getting worse for a lot of people regardless of how long we can force people to stay alive with medical means.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#53

>> Home ownership is the American dream: In Australia, for many people the (new) Australian dream is: "One day I hope to have the income to be able to afford to pass the grueling real estate agent's suitability test to rent a house and move out of the tent/car."

I don't even know how we got here. Population growth has been below average for the last 3 years(no immigration). Housing/Apartment construction didn't slow down.

I just don't understand it. Mortgages are insane. If you're buying a rental property with a mortgage, you can't afford to not rent it out.

But home costs are up, rental costs are up, and properties are vacant. Do we really have so many people able to afford to sit on empty properties rather than lower rental price? It's also insane. Most rents are north of $600 around here, and a $10-a-week difference is $520 a year in rent. So if you raise rent by $50, that's $2600 a year extra(excluding taxes). but if the apartment stays empty for 6 weeks while you wait for someone willing to pay, that's likely to cost you > $3000. So that $50 increase has a 1 year payoff, assuming a long-term tenant.

The whole market is irrational. The greed of landlords these days is palpable.

I think we need a wealth tax on people who own more than 2 properties. Start making landlording infeasible and get people to instead invest their capital in productive assets.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#54
post #33

I wish more older Americans understood how these people really work. My parents live in a neighborhood that has gone down hill through the years. They called up a company who did this kind of home buying. Usual visual inspections and the like went on with a quote being issued. They saw the amount was a little over the remaining mortgage which was less than the market value of the house. They decided to ahead of time…

Now and then, someone posts on HN their saga about disrupting real estate. It’s difficult, but I wonder what would help those like your parents.

I wonder what it would take for eBay to auction real estate, and whether older people in 2030 would try that instead of this caveman.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#55
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's enough fine print to require 3+ hours of reading for someone with high-schools level comprehension... then it can easily hide exploitive terms. For seniors with dwindling mental capacity the situation is even more dire.

If you haven't understood (or even read) what they are telling you to sign you shouldn't sign. What you can't do is sign and then complain about what you signed. That's ridiculous, and the courts agree.

I'm pleased to report that the courts don't agree here in Australia. I was taught this story at university - apologies in advance if I've butchered some of the details.

As I remember it, there was a famous case decades ago where a bank manager visited the home of an elderly Polish couple. The couple had a mortgage with the bank, and the bank wanted to renegotiate the terms of their mortgage. Only the wife was home, and she barely spoke any English. She understood that the man in the suit from the bank wanted them to sign some paperwork, so she did. As a co-signatory of the mortgage, her signature was enough.

The couple eventually lost their home as a result, and the case went through the courts. Eventually the high court (equivalent of the supreme court in the USA) sided with the couple. They said that because the bank has more money and skill, they have more power in a negotiation like this. As a result, they bear proportionately more responsibility during contract negotiations. In this case, it was their responsibility as the powerful party to make sure the borrowers actually understood the terms they were signing.

We basically only have 6 banks in Australia because of things like this. Its very difficult and expensive to open a new bank in australia because of regulatory requirements. But my impression is that the banks here are extremely careful when it comes to interacting with unsophisticated investors. They (reasonably) assume the courts will rule against them if they do anything that doesn't pass the pub test.

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc.)

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Mass homelessness is new to Australia. It's used to be a small number of people here and there. The obsession with owning real estate has turned our society into landlords and renters, with renters paying the mortgages on their landlords investments - mortgages which are spiraling up due to interest rate rises. Nearly all the members of parliament have extensive housing portfolios so they have disincentive to fix it.…

Yes, which is why more people need to vote minor parties and independents if there are good ones in their electorates. Basically our major parties are a bit like the US - the Liberal/National coalition, like the Republicans, govern for the rich at the expense of the poor, and the Labor party (like the Democrats) just maintain the status quo but put a progressive PR spin on it... The political ratchet, where one party moves things, and the other just stops things moving back...

At least our voting system actually lets minor parties win seats, which is why I think our Government is at least a bit less crazy than the States.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#57
post #35

The author would prefer to verbally support "vulnerable people" instead of cash for their homes. I wonder what he thinks of foreclosures.

I hate to respond to arguments made in bad faith, but this is so ignorant that I simply have to.

If you read the article, and the excellent primary reporting it links to, you'll see that these companies are swindling people for significantly less than they would get from the open market. These people could hire a realtor and retain 95% of the value of their home. However, scams like "We buy ugly houses" blanket areas in advertisements so these folks never even get to find their market value - instead, selling for 50% or less of it. They're intentionally targeting folks who are least-likely or least-capable of protecting themselves with due diligence.

I've witnessed this myself. An elderly man under full-time care, in another state, inherited a property in my neighborhood. A "franchisee" of one of these places got him to sign over the "right to buy" for a fraction of what it would have sold for in a single day on zillow or similar. I was interested in buying it, but I didn't want to end up owning something that way, so I reached out to the man directly to link him to the (much higher) estimated value.

I never received a response from him: just from a "caretaker" who, I imagine, was being enriched somehow by the deal. I doubt the actual owner was ever informed.

It's incredibly predatory and there's a whole industry of "how to" get into it (it being "wholesaling," or unregulated real estate brokerage):

https://www.fortunebuilders.com/absentee-owner-lists/

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#58
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of these people have dementia. It's not a fair negotiation.

Contracts signed by mentally incompetent people are generally invalid. So this article isn't about that. Therefore, when the article says the courts accept the contracts as valid they can't be talking about the contracts signed by the infirm, but the article conflates both things maliciously.

[deleted]

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#59

>One whistleblower tells of how the company uses the surveillance advertising industry to locate elderly people who've broken a hip: "a 60-day countdown to death — and, possibly, a deal." This statement right here is truly disgusting and real. It doesn't just apply exploitive contracts either. In the case where the victim is deemed incompetent by the government, this is how families have them die. You want to talk ab…

This is just barely scratching the surface of the surveillance society that our own tech industry has enthusiastically embraced, at every opportunity.

Even from the very first alpha prototype or placeholder Web site we create, we almost always throw in third-party "analytics". Haven't even launched MVP, and already selling out out the privacy of our visitors.

Re: The Ugly Truth Behind “We Buy Ugly Houses”

#60
post #53

>> Home ownership is the American dream: In Australia, for many people the (new) Australian dream is: "One day I hope to have the income to be able to afford to pass the grueling real estate agent's suitability test to rent a house and move out of the tent/car."

I don't even know how we got here. Population growth has been below average for the last 3 years(no immigration). Housing/Apartment construction didn't slow down. I just don't understand it. Mortgages are insane. If you're buying a rental property with a mortgage, you can't afford to not rent it out. But home costs are up, rental costs are up, and properties are vacant. Do we really have so many people able to afford…

> I don't even know how we got here.

From my perspective 2007 just destroyed the market. So many troubled assets and loose government money and no one putting any effort into helping the average citizen. A giant wealth and land transfer occurred. The second largest in recent memory.

> I think we need a wealth tax on people who own more than 2 properties.

All you will do is create a "straw purchase" market for homes.

> Start making landlording infeasible and get people to instead invest their capital in productive assets.

Temporary housing is a useful thing, though.

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