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Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#171

Post by jebarker »

sokoloff wrote: post #108
latchkey wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop drinking entirely. I know it is hard to not have that nice beer or glass of wine, but the reality is that alcohol is just poison. Once you stop, you realize that it feels like some great conspiracy. We're literally bombarded with ads and social pressure to drink. It is like the pressure at your job to sign up for a 401k because you don't know how to manage money yourself and you should let someone else do it for…

I have mostly stopped drinking alcohol. Our downstairs fridge has 4 or 5 different kinds of good-tasting non-alcoholic beers; there has been a real explosion in the variety and quality of them available over the last decade. Many are fairly hard to distinguish from their alcohol-laden counterparts and even what small difference exists is far from worth the hangover/sluggish feeling. When I have a drink now, it's like…

On St Patrick's Day I drank a non-alcoholic Guinness and was shocked that it was indistinguishable from the "real thing" in flavor and consistency.

401k's are also a no brainer if there's decent company matching.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#172

Post by kaveh808 »

Older developer here (I started my career by writing 3D graphics software in the mid-80's).

I recently spent a number of years in semi-retirement, concentrating on my photography [0] and filmmaking [1] and thinking I was done with (and too old for) software development.

Professional software development had lost its lure for me as the CG and VFX industry had grown into a massive factory-like industry. Though I had worked on some satisfying projects -- writing the animation code used in "Jurassic Park", leading the R&D team for "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within", working on "The Hobbit" movies -- I had lost the desire to write software.

Then about a year ago a friend asked me to teach him some Common Lisp online. So I wrote some tutorials and as we did our sessions [2] I got increasingly enthusiastic about developing for fun, especially if I could use the tool of my choice (Common Lisp) for the domain of my choice (computer graphics). So I started a new 3D graphics project and made it open source [3]. Even started a blog about the journey [4].

Although I don't consider myself to be up on the latest buzzwords and web architectures and the only scrum I'm familiar with is from my rugby-playing days, I have found -- rediscovered -- the pleasure of designing and implementing software. Surprisingly (to me at least), I don't feel over the hill. Yes, I probably can't do the marathon programming sessions I used to do, and all-nighters are a thing of the past, but I don't find my mind being any less sharp than it used to be.

[0] https://www.kardanphotography.com

[1] https://vimeo.com/kavehkardan

[2] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTA6M4yZF0MzsMlNL0N67...

[3] https://github.com/kaveh808/kons-9

[4] https://medium.com/@kaveh808/once-more-into-the-breach-a-new...

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#173

Post by calsy »

softwaredoug wrote: post #13

In my 20s I worried about losing my intellectual abilities in my 40s and 50s What you really just lose is patience for BS :) Sure, yeah, you lose 10% of your raw intellect if you stay healthy[1]. You probably more than make up for it in experience and wisdom. But hell the thing that demotivates me is the recycled insanity of large organizations, egotistical tech executives, hype cycles, and all the other BS. Eventual…

Have you ever EVER heard a 40 year old say 'I was a lot smarter back in my 20s'??? never... more likely they'll reminisce about the stupid things they got up to.

Your certainly not losing your intellectual abilities at 40 or 50, far from it.

40 and 50 year olds will just be moving on to the next stage of their career, using their collected experience to manage and pass on knowledge. Coding requires focus which is difficult to come by generally when you're older and juggling many responsibilities that you've created in your life up to this point like family, finances etc. You certainly don't become dumb.

All the attributes of big tech organisations you described could be applied to many other fields. When you're at the bottom (like a smart 20 year old) and have no control, it can be frustrating. You can rebel against it, play the game, or go out and do your own thing.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#174

Post by cbushko »

I am 47 and I am the best I have ever been. I might code slower than people 20 years younger than me but I produce much much better code than they do.

There is definitely ageism out there. What you don't get in velocity, I make up in quality.

Also, I think I am wise enough to know that I know nothing and there is still a heck of a lot to learn!

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#175

Post by eb0la »

One month ago I phoned the best data warehouse developer I've ever met because I wanted to hire him. Turns out he's 62 - and he plans to stay in the company he works until he retires.

I should have kidnaped and cloned him when I had the chance.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#176

Post by latchkey »

twic wrote: post #163
MoreQARespect wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen it done properly with unit tests on algorithmic or decision making code (parsers, calculators, complex, deterministic thinking code). I've seen it done properly with integration tests on integration code (CRUD, messaging, websites, etc.). However, people do insist on writing unit tests on integration code and when they do it, it all goes horribly wrong.

I was in the middle of writing a reply to the comment you replied to, when i had to stop because my app was crashing in staging, because i had written a unit test for integration code.

I built an app that ran on 30k+ servers across multiple data centers and it had an auto update mechanism because the app needed to be routinely updated with new features.

I had an integration test that ensured that the app would start up correctly and that the self-update mechanism worked. Without those tests, any failure to start would cause me to have to "talk" to 30k+ servers to get it to install a new version of the app. (ssh into each server and re-install the app).

Automating that communication across that many servers (many of which could be rebooting at any time) and ensuring that they all had a running version of the app, was difficult to say the least. How do you even track that the app is running? (You end up having to have a ping mechanism too!)

Of course, I didn't start off with those tests and had to do things the hard way more than a few times. The thing is that once I added the tests, I never once had to do things the hard way again.

So, you can certainly do things the hard way, or you can just write tests and be done with it and work on features instead.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#177

Post by lelanthran »

dlivingston wrote: post #126
lelanthran wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as maintaining focus goes, I had a lot of trouble doing so after 40. I wrote a small program[1] to help me maintain context between different projects, and I'm now more productive than I was in my 30s. [1] I tried all the personal task management and task tracker tools, even wrote a few of my own. It turned out that my brain works differently to how the tools want you to work. My new tool which works well to k…

Can you give some details on your tool? I've played the "productivity app whack-a-mole" game, too, and always walk away empty. I just stick with a pen and paper, but I'd love a digital solution.

> Can you give some details on your tool?

I'm conflicted; on the one hand I would like to let the world know about it, but on the other I can see how it would be easily dismissed as useless when there's literally no docs about it.

I think I shall make a small example usage (terminal only) to demonstrate how it helps me, then post a show HN tomorrow or Saturday (depending).

I'll reply to your post again once I post the show HN.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#178

Post by dublinben »

ilaksh wrote: post #167
pjmorris wrote: post #4

Gerald Weinberg formed a community of consultants that continues after his passing. They post and work in various places, but you might look up one or more of Johanna Rothman, Esther Derby, Don Gray, and George Dinwiddie. They've all had long enough careers that they, like Jerry, have taken on helping other lengthen their careers as part of their remit. The c2 wiki has some of the wisest, oldest, voices in software d…

What's the URL for the c2 wiki? What does c2 stand for?

https://wiki.c2.com/

It apparently stands for Cunningham & Cunningham, according to wikipedia, named after the founder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiWeb

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#179

Post by davidschof »

I worked in management from 25 and returned to an individual contributor development role at 43. There are lots of resources for developers, although not sure any of them are focused on the fact my age is a little greater than the average age individual developer.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#180

Post by MonaroVXR »

softwaredoug wrote: post #13

In my 20s I worried about losing my intellectual abilities in my 40s and 50s What you really just lose is patience for BS :) Sure, yeah, you lose 10% of your raw intellect if you stay healthy[1]. You probably more than make up for it in experience and wisdom. But hell the thing that demotivates me is the recycled insanity of large organizations, egotistical tech executives, hype cycles, and all the other BS. Eventual…

> What you really just lose is patience for BS :)

Well, I lost this way earlier than that already hahaha. Totally agree with your comment by the way.

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