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Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#161

Post by tasteofmaple »

rlawson wrote: post #153
tasteofmaple wrote: post #149

I'm 69 years old and I started coding in earnest 6 years ago. Love doing it. Last year I retired from my day job and I've been coding everyday for 6 or 7 hours on personal projects. I find my mind has become sharper and really good at problem solving. The only issue I have with coding is it's somewhat of a solitary existence. If I had taken up golf I would have buddies to play golf with. With coding I sit in front of…

Do you mind me asking what got you interested in coding and what kinds of things do you work on?

I enjoy coding… there’s feeling of personal power that coding gives you, and I like problem solving. I’ve been working on 2 saas oriented projects, one focused on real estate industry, and the other on support for entrepreneurs or would-be entrepreneurs.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#162

Post by ElfinTrousers »

belter wrote: post #146

The Ageism present in the Software Development industry, is a sign of its still ever present immaturity. While in any other field...Who want's their house designed by the youngest, freshly graduated Architect? Who wants to be operated by a Surgeon on it's 2nd heart operation? Who wants the Junior Partner Lawyer supporting them on their court attendance? What would the Abel prize winners think? https://abelprize.no/wi…

Ironically Abel himself died at age 26. Even Amy Winehouse lived longer.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#163

Post by twic »

MoreQARespect wrote: post #128
bastardoperator wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all about testing especially at the unit level but I've never personally seen TDD implemented successfully. I won't lie, I'll write my code, write my tests, refactor based on new learnings, check coverage stats, and PR for feedback. I'm also 40+ too.

I've seen it done properly with unit tests on algorithmic or decision making code (parsers, calculators, complex, deterministic thinking code). I've seen it done properly with integration tests on integration code (CRUD, messaging, websites, etc.). However, people do insist on writing unit tests on integration code and when they do it, it all goes horribly wrong.

I was in the middle of writing a reply to the comment you replied to, when i had to stop because my app was crashing in staging, because i had written a unit test for integration code.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#164

Post by uptownfunk »

softwaredoug wrote: post #13

In my 20s I worried about losing my intellectual abilities in my 40s and 50s What you really just lose is patience for BS :) Sure, yeah, you lose 10% of your raw intellect if you stay healthy[1]. You probably more than make up for it in experience and wisdom. But hell the thing that demotivates me is the recycled insanity of large organizations, egotistical tech executives, hype cycles, and all the other BS. Eventual…

So what is motivating to you in your career?

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#165

Post by m3047 »

calderwoodra wrote: post #50

I'm younger than most of the folks commenting here, but I've noticed very clearly that my eyes aren't nearly as strong as they used to be. I'm wondering how older folks deal with this beyond just wearing glasses. Additionally, some other things I'd like to learn about: Any subreddits geared for older developers? Any supplements that are great for older engineers/knowledge workers?

Get good glasses. I haven't had Lasik because when I was young I could "count the rocks on Mt. Rainier!" as my wife's very expensive optometrist put it. I have astigmatism, and I've gotten rather farsighted as I've aged; all of it is correctable with glasses, and I've been informed it wouldn't be after Lasik.

I wore dimestore readers for almost a decade. Finally saw the optometrist after discovering that after a day of screentime while I was driving home I'd be seeing double. Astigmatism correction fixed that. Went another decade before saying fuck it and getting aviators (photogrey, bifocal) for driving (don't need them to pass the driver's test); discovered how much they cleaned up the light flare at night. Went another five years before joking about rose colored glasses and ended up getting a lightly tinted pair; it was just a taste, it wasn't enough. Next time I went in I got flamin' rose colored ones in huge hexagonal gold frames: kinda messes with colors but so awesomely worth it driving at night with all the blue-tinted LED headlights and streetlights.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#166

Post by twic »

bastardoperator wrote: post #127
latchkey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just turned 50 in October I'm turning 50 this month and a professional developer since I was about 21-22. > I think the lack of TDD being as widely adopted Hilariously, I just got -4'd (and a whole thread) for asking why someone didn't just write tests, instead of building some half baked tool to debug their websocket app. The responses were all sorts of absurd excuses. I'll happily take the negative karma, cause…

I'm all about testing especially at the unit level but I've never personally seen TDD implemented successfully. I won't lie, I'll write my code, write my tests, refactor based on new learnings, check coverage stats, and PR for feedback. I'm also 40+ too.

I have seen TDD done successfully, at a few companies. I think it's one of those things where you really have to learn it by doing it with people who already know it. I can well believe that there are people who read a blog post, started doing it, and got terrible results.

It also requires quite a bit of discipline, or commitment, or conscientiousness. It's worth it, but you have to be on the ball. It helps a lot if everyone on the team is experienced in TDD and positive about it, because you can all support each other.

It requires constant occasional investment, in building test infrastructure, updating older tests, etc. Often not a lot, and you can do it as you go. But sometimes, particularly for integration tests, you have to sit down and bash out some sort of framework to make testing tractable at all.

And it's possible it doesn't work everywhere. In my current job, i write a lot of applied maths code, and i haven't worked out how to test-drive that, because i generally don't know what the result should be before i start (i wouldn't need to write it if i did!). Sometimes i can make relative assertions ("the antimatter consumption at warp six should be eight times the antimatter consumption at warp three"), and sometimes i can calculate rough bounds by hand ("the antimatter consumption at warp one should be within 20% of the inverse relativistic mass"). But mostly, i implement something, then run it on a lot of data, plot the output, and decide if it looks roughly right.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#167

Post by ilaksh »

pjmorris wrote: post #4

Gerald Weinberg formed a community of consultants that continues after his passing. They post and work in various places, but you might look up one or more of Johanna Rothman, Esther Derby, Don Gray, and George Dinwiddie. They've all had long enough careers that they, like Jerry, have taken on helping other lengthen their careers as part of their remit. The c2 wiki has some of the wisest, oldest, voices in software d…

What's the URL for the c2 wiki? What does c2 stand for?

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#168

Post by latchkey »

twic wrote: post #166
bastardoperator wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all about testing especially at the unit level but I've never personally seen TDD implemented successfully. I won't lie, I'll write my code, write my tests, refactor based on new learnings, check coverage stats, and PR for feedback. I'm also 40+ too.

I have seen TDD done successfully, at a few companies. I think it's one of those things where you really have to learn it by doing it with people who already know it. I can well believe that there are people who read a blog post, started doing it, and got terrible results. It also requires quite a bit of discipline, or commitment, or conscientiousness. It's worth it, but you have to be on the ball. It helps a lot if…

You're right, I didn't 'get it' until I worked at a place that was all TDD and I was surrounded by people who took it seriously. It wasn't about 100% coverage or any forced mechanics. It was simply a group of people who were all on the exact same page working on the same exact methodology. Almost a 'cult' of programmers.

> i haven't worked out how to test-drive that

That's exactly it. I don't always see tests as being necessary for greenfield code. You don't have to test drive it. But, you should write tests. Once you figure it out and have things in a place where you're comfortable, write a test so that when you go back and make a change later... you know that the code will break tests and you can be confident of 'change over time'.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#169

Post by sarchertech »

cableshaft wrote: post #54
granshaw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah try 40-50% instead

Have some data on that? This is what I've been able to find, and it suggests 'fluid intelligence' only drops down 10% from your peak in your 20s by age 54, and down 14% by age 64, which is nowhere near what you're suggesting (in fact it never gets that low according to this). And crystallized intelligence much slower than that. "Fluid intelligence or fluid reasoning reflects the ability to solve novel problems, the k…

The numbers there are just population average IQ scores by age. There’s so many potentially confounding variables that the data is close to meaningless.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#170

Post by menacingly »

javcasas wrote: post #27
softwaredoug wrote: post #13

In my 20s I worried about losing my intellectual abilities in my 40s and 50s What you really just lose is patience for BS :) Sure, yeah, you lose 10% of your raw intellect if you stay healthy[1]. You probably more than make up for it in experience and wisdom. But hell the thing that demotivates me is the recycled insanity of large organizations, egotistical tech executives, hype cycles, and all the other BS. Eventual…

39 here. I'm significantly better than in my 20s. Much more knowledge and wisdom, a bit less raw brainpower. But I know I can force myself through hard stuff (prolog, category theory, ML research papers) but only if I can kick out instant gratification for a while (reddit, hn, videogames). I remember this week more than 10 years ago where my graphics card died, and had to go with this ancient card with zero accelerat…

Funny timing, I was just discussing with a friend that I can palpably feel a slight loss of edge, I know sometimes that I'm working through something with a little less raw horsepower, and I still wouldn't trade away the experience advantage for anything.

It feels like a shift slightly away from "build the thing right" and toward "build the right thing". There's no sense racing to a destination that we don't want to arrive at in the first place.

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