Basic Physics of Rowing (2007) • Hacker News Board

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#21

Post by aaronharnly » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

swarupberia wrote: post #18

germinalphrase wrote: post #15

This seems as good a place to ask an any: is there a best “bang for your buck” rowing machine (or style of machine) for a novice? Edit: thanks!

Concept 2 Rowerg Model D is one of the best. https://www.wodarmour.in/collections/concept2/products/conce...

Also you can usually find them in abundance at a discount, due to the “purchased but not used” phenomenon of home exercise equipment :)

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#22

Post by throwaway6734 » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

ninkendo wrote: post #4

I rowed in high school, and one of the things the coaches always wanted to see is for you to slide forward slowly in your seat as you move the oar between strokes. The reasoning being that as you slide “forward” in your seat, you’re actually pushing the boat backwards with your momentum, since you face backwards in the boat. It always struck me as strange advice though, because in a race you’re trying to get high str…

>There were other dubious bits of advice too, like pushing with your legs first, then torso, then arms, but if you try to actually do that in reality it feels extremely awkward. And watching the pros do it on TV it doesn’t seem like they’re doing anything like this.

This is the proper way to row. Iirc its about extending the length of your stroke while having consistent pulling

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#23

Post by gullywhumper » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

ninkendo wrote: post #4

I rowed in high school, and one of the things the coaches always wanted to see is for you to slide forward slowly in your seat as you move the oar between strokes. The reasoning being that as you slide “forward” in your seat, you’re actually pushing the boat backwards with your momentum, since you face backwards in the boat. It always struck me as strange advice though, because in a race you’re trying to get high str…

There's an efficient ratio between the drive and recovery. At 20spm a 1 second drive means 2 seconds on the recovery (so a full stroke is 3 seconds). Try rowing that rating at a ratio closer to 1:1 and you'll really notice the inefficiency. You couldn't do that for an hour and maintain a decent split. As power and rating increase, you want to maintain a ratio. I don't know if it's always 1:2, but there's still an efficient ratio. A similar idea might be being in the wrong gear on a bike. On flat ground with no wind, if you're in the wrong gear you might be able to pedal at a very high rpm, but you'll probably notice that you are not moving efficiently. So avoiding rushing the slide isn't as much about free speed or checking the boat, but being in the right gear. Definitely not a physicist - so maybe not the best analogy, and maybe I'm misremembering how my coaches had explained it to me.

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#24

Post by slow_typist » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #15

This seems as good a place to ask an any: is there a best “bang for your buck” rowing machine (or style of machine) for a novice? Edit: thanks!

Second this. Nearly all rowing clubs here in Germany buy concept2 for a reason. The monitor is a bit old fashioned but does the trick. Machines are sturdy and last for a long time.

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#25

Post by whitepoplar » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #15

This seems as good a place to ask an any: is there a best “bang for your buck” rowing machine (or style of machine) for a novice? Edit: thanks!

Concept2 is the gold standard, and it's not even the most expensive. It's the only machine competitive rowers use, from high school to the olympics. C2 supports their machines to an insane level, going so far as to provide replacement parts all the way back to their first machine from 1981.

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#26

Post by swores » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

crote wrote: post #10

dutchblacksmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your coach was right, it was good advice, Olimpic rowers master this to perfection and make it look easy.

That's the irony of rowing: when you are doing it properly it looks completely effortless .

I can't say I feel that to be the case having watched various races... it looks fucking exhausting!

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#27

Post by Someone » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

ninkendo wrote: post #4

I rowed in high school, and one of the things the coaches always wanted to see is for you to slide forward slowly in your seat as you move the oar between strokes. The reasoning being that as you slide “forward” in your seat, you’re actually pushing the boat backwards with your momentum, since you face backwards in the boat. It always struck me as strange advice though, because in a race you’re trying to get high str…

Coaches don’t necessarily tell you what you have to do, but what makes you do what you have to do.

Yes, Olympic rowers move forwards fast in their slides (how else do you do 40+ strokes a minute?), and no semi-experienced rower fully separates the arms/back/legs motions (they tend to blend into each other a bit), but common beginner errors are:

- to race the slide, then stop at the catch, causing the boat to pitch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_motions#Pitch) more strongly, losing speed. Pros move fast, but all their other movements are faster, too, so they don’t race forwards on their slides (at least not in training. Sprints in racing can be different, but even then, they try not to do that, as it costs speed)

- to bend the arms first, then stretch the legs. That won’t work if you’re using your leg muscles to the fullest, as your arms won’t be able to stay bent. They will straighten out again, and the force of the blade on the water will be lower than when they didn’t do that.

So, the “legs/back/arms on the stroke, arms/back/legs on the recover” and “don’t rush the slide” mantras exaggerate what you ideally should do, but for beginners, erring in that direction isn’t that bad compared to those errors.

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#28

Post by inasio » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

sankumsek wrote: post #17

inasio wrote: post #11

One cool fact is that rowing offers a bigger efficiency advantage over swimming than biking over running: The efficiency advantage of biking versus running is around 2.66x, the hour record on bikes is currently 56 km (56km/hr), and the fastest marathon run is around 21km/hr. On rowing vs swimming, the current freestyle 1500m record is 14:31 (6.2km/hr), whereas the best time for single scullers is 2km in 6:30 (18.5km/…

Wouldn't this be better if we just picked the hour record for running?[1] Coincidentally it's right at 21km/hr! :) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_hour_run

I tried to find similar distances to compare, but it might have been better like you suggested to compare around similar times. One other thing is that the conditions in an indoor velodrome are pretty ideal vs being in the water, although you also can get currents and wind (although records cannot be certified unless winds are below some threshold I believe)

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#29

Post by JackFr » Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:55 PM UTC

aaronharnly wrote: post #21

swarupberia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concept 2 Rowerg Model D is one of the best. https://www.wodarmour.in/collections/concept2/products/conce...

Also you can usually find them in abundance at a discount, due to the “purchased but not used” phenomenon of home exercise equipment :)

Also purchased by ambitious parents with visions of college admissions, despite limited (or less) interest by their children.

Re: Basic Physics of Rowing (2007)

#30

Post by anonu » Thu, May 11, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

I rowed in a 4 and 8 in college. As we were a club sport, we didn't get much funding from the school. As a result we had numerous ancient watercraft with some newer boats in the mix. It was always a joy to get to row in the newer boats, of course, as they were lighter and stronger.

We also had a thing called the "twinkie test". Rowing is a sport where everyone needs to be in perfect sync and "pulling their own weight". If you could replace a rower with a twinkie and the boat went faster, then it was fair to say you weren't contributing enough.