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NIH restarts bat virus grant

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Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#151

Post by jeremyjh »

peteradio wrote: post #142
jeremyjh wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the arrogance of thinking its possible to do this research safely with any containment procedures is ridiculous. Yes, you can make the chances of a leak extremely minimal, but you can't rule it out when humans are involved and the consequences are so extraordinary that there just isn't an acceptable trade-off.

Fully automated underground bunkers stocked with precursor pathogens and humanized lab rats equipped with firebombs with the intention of complete evisceration at conclusion of experiment. Dig a deep hole in the desert crane drop in the prepared apparatus wait for experiment results, burn it all down. None of these precautions would prevent someone from using the results of the experiment for ill purposes.

Yes but there is a lot of waste in a system like that and after 10 years of spotless safety record the MBAs will start dismantling it, like re-using facilities instead of firebombing, and the re-fitting inevitably requires some humans on-site etc.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#152

Post by jjoonathan »

secondcoming wrote: post #133
tristor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lockdowns had to happen because authorities (Trump, not CDC) pissed away a month of exponential growth This does not match my recollection. Not to get all political, but I was headed to a conference in Belgium just weeks prior to the lockdowns starting wearing a full-face respirator and got made fun of by the TSA agents in the Atlanta airport because the CDC was telling people that masks were unnecessary/didn't wor…

You're dead right. This was a no-win situation for any politician. Had they done little, people would be in hysterics that nothing was being done because $FOREIGN_COUNTRY had stricter rules in place. Had they done a lot, people would be in hysterics that freedoms were being curtailed unnecessarily because $FOREGN_COUNTRY had weaker rules in place.

No-win? People love firm leadership in a time of crisis. It was almost a no-lose, but Trump found a way. If he had reluctantly accepted basic public health measures from the start or even pivoted into them when things got serious ("Stop the China Virus! Wear a MAGA Mask!") people would have loved him for it. He would still be president.

Instead, 3 years later, half the country believes that masks are tyrannical government oppression and IR thermometers are gulag training.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#153

Post by tristor »

jjoonathan wrote: post #149
tristor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lockdowns had to happen because authorities (Trump, not CDC) pissed away a month of exponential growth This does not match my recollection. Not to get all political, but I was headed to a conference in Belgium just weeks prior to the lockdowns starting wearing a full-face respirator and got made fun of by the TSA agents in the Atlanta airport because the CDC was telling people that masks were unnecessary/didn't wor…

No, these two mistakes are not equal. Not remotely. The CDC didn't think it had the political capital to press the mask issue. Until it did, and then the policy changed. It was a delay of weeks on one Rt reduction measure of many. Trump, OTOH, placed all of his chips on "ignore it and it will go away in April," delayed all the other Rt reduction mechanisms for longer, lost the bet, and activated his entire voter base…

> The FUD he stirred on basic public health measures swirled for years and we still haven't seen the end of it. Just look at this thread.

By this, I take it you're implying I'm a Trump supporter and that is why I responded the way I did. You are mistaken, and I suggest you re-read what I actually wrote.

Nothing you have said in reply to me refutes the substance of my statements, you are just trying to deepen the politicization of something that was nearly a universal government fuckup, and I mean universal both across political alignments, but also geographically around the world.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#154

Post by arcbyte »

bfung wrote: post #98
arcbyte wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida did lockdowns right. They flattened the curve and then managed limited social resources. Many other states just went into irrational and indefinite Long term lockdowns. Illinois for instance was locked down for months and months despite having enourmous hospital capacity - the lack of which was the whole reason for entering the lockdown in the first place. It just didn't make sense after a while except as a p…

The death rate per capita seems to suggest Florida probably could’ve done better. 20th highest death per capita out of the 50 states. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/covid19_mortality_...

There are lots of metrics available to optimize for or use as guidance. The choice of which metrics to pay attention to is a politcal matter.

I don't know that any state made it a policy to optimize for a reduced death rate directly. They chose hospitalizations in the early days and then I think metrics disappeared, or only the R value was loosely paid attention to. That's my point.

If death rate wasn't a chosen metric then it's irrelevant.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#155

Post by jjoonathan »

runsWphotons wrote: post #100
jjoonathan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse for everyone. It's absolutely wild that you think elementary public health is a conspiracy.

Many Countries which did little had better results. Arguable that all efforts outside protecting nursing homes were futile or harmful.

By "many countries" do you mean "Sweden, if you cut off the data right before their big wave"?

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#156

Post by jjoonathan »

tristor wrote: post #153
jjoonathan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, these two mistakes are not equal. Not remotely. The CDC didn't think it had the political capital to press the mask issue. Until it did, and then the policy changed. It was a delay of weeks on one Rt reduction measure of many. Trump, OTOH, placed all of his chips on "ignore it and it will go away in April," delayed all the other Rt reduction mechanisms for longer, lost the bet, and activated his entire voter base…

> The FUD he stirred on basic public health measures swirled for years and we still haven't seen the end of it. Just look at this thread. By this, I take it you're implying I'm a Trump supporter and that is why I responded the way I did. You are mistaken, and I suggest you re-read what I actually wrote. Nothing you have said in reply to me refutes the substance of my statements, you are just trying to deepen the poli…

> you're implying I'm a Trump supporter

Comparing two mistakes separated by orders of magnitude in consequence is a conservative talking point for a reason. I genuinely believe you when you claim to not like him, but you are supporting him by pushing this comparison, even if you don't like him.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#157

Post by peteradio »

jonhohle wrote: post #82
eli wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NIH, the scientists doing the research, and most other experts in the field disagree. Partisan politicians are the ones yelling about how dangerous it is. I think I'll listen to the experts.

[flagged]

Not that I disagree but you are accusing OP of shilling/astroturfing and I suspect its one reason why threads like these get downmodded.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#158

Post by tristor »

jjoonathan wrote: post #156
tristor wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FUD he stirred on basic public health measures swirled for years and we still haven't seen the end of it. Just look at this thread. By this, I take it you're implying I'm a Trump supporter and that is why I responded the way I did. You are mistaken, and I suggest you re-read what I actually wrote. Nothing you have said in reply to me refutes the substance of my statements, you are just trying to deepen the poli…

> you're implying I'm a Trump supporter Comparing two mistakes separated by orders of magnitude in consequence is a conservative talking point for a reason. I genuinely believe you when you claim to not like him, but you are supporting him by pushing this comparison, even if you don't like him.

> but you are supporting him

That's not how that works.

I believe you are commenting in an entirely politically-motivated way and are not responding in good faith to my reply to your original comment. At this point I don't think we can have a productive conversation, so I wish you the best and I'm going to move on to a better use of my time.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#159

Post by nathanaldensr »

netbioserror wrote: post #19

I love the appeal to the "independence" of science from politics, after what may have been the single most materially and socially destructive scientific disaster since the invention of the atom bomb. We'll just act like none of that ever happened and continue with impunity.

The cognitive dissonance is that extreme in all those who blindly trusted the words of evil politicians and pharma companies.

Re: NIH restarts bat virus grant

#160

Post by whywhywhywhy »

sergiotapia wrote: post #34
netbioserror wrote: post #19

I love the appeal to the "independence" of science from politics, after what may have been the single most materially and socially destructive scientific disaster since the invention of the atom bomb. We'll just act like none of that ever happened and continue with impunity.

Whatever happens, I don't think people will tolerate another lockdown ever again for at least two generations. I know in florida there could be literally airborn aids and people will still go out and live life, myself included. COVID lockdowns were a test of how much the government could push without backlash. I feel so badly for the kids that lost their last two years of high school for what?

>Whatever happens, I don't think people will tolerate another lockdown ever again for at least two generations.

Some wont, but some people actually miss it and it was the best thing that ever happened to them.

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