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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#561

Post by Firmwarrior »

bdavisx wrote: post #164
nforgerit wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh I like this comment so much. This is exactly how I felt and saw ourselves whilst sitting in hipster startup offices getting way too much money compared to the rest of society. That said, tech people in general publicly don't get enough respect or disrespect for their work.

>getting way too much money compared to the rest of society Personally I feel that the "rest of society" is getting way too little money vs. us getting way too much (opinion based on the fact that profits/productivity have outgrown salaries for too long).

Yeah, man, I've been trying to tell people this for a while. Programming isn't overpaid; it's just the one field where market forces actually work to provide a livable wage that grows with inflation.

When I was working at a non-FAANG for normal pay, I was basically living the exact same lifestyle as my dockworker grandfather. I could afford a house and car, wife didn't have to work, one vacation per year, moderate savings.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#562

Post by rcarmo »

sgerenser wrote: post #535
rcarmo wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just plain not true. And I say that as someone who got some stock and is aware of just how much my US peers got comparatively.

Microsoft does pay bonuses and stock refreshers, but outside of one-time “Special stock awards” (which I’ve heard is mainly reserved for retention of people likely to jump ship), the refreshers aren’t very significant until you reach level 65 (principal). At least compared to refreshers at other major tech companies. It depends on the exact level and how well the employee negotiated their sign-on RSUs, but most emplo…

Level 65 is not Principal across the orgs (I’m an IC6 and reached Principal below that). My experience is different (or else I got retention every year…)

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#563

Post by mixmastamyk »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #458
mixmastamyk wrote: post #406

Microsoft is a cancer and has been since the 80s. Time for the younger generation to learn that. Seems they’ve been drinking the PR kool-aid the last few years and believing it. Time for some chemo/radio therapy. :-D

Not a VS Code user I take it.

Wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole, though I understand it is decent technically. There’s just too many great choices, that don’t require submitting to a known abuser.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#564

Post by sublinear »

nunez wrote: post #544
sublinear wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's different in other places, but have you seen the paychecks of some construction workers? Sure they are working in potentially hazardous conditions, but the pay can be about the same for similarly tenured workers. It's important to remember that if you're working for a living, you're still working class.

Lol tell that to the actively working doctors, lawyers and c-suite execs living in the fanciest neighborhoods of their respective cities that own moderate to significant controlling portions of companies

> actively working doctors, lawyers and c-suite execs

They do work in some sense. They manage resources and dispense expertise from time to time...

> own moderate to significant controlling portions of companies

... but it's a gray area because they're also part of the owning class

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#565

Post by mk67 »

ryandrake wrote: post #142
bcrosby95 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because HN is increasingly realizing they're actually a part of the working class.

Bingo. After about a decade of tech workers thinking we were part of some global aristocracy just because we could afford payments on a Tesla and could (briefly) get multiple job offers from companies... The minute we get into a bear market, suddenly we're all César Chávez, fighting for the working class. How the turn tables!

How can you count yourself as working class? Even outside top US salaries most of us could probably take several years off the job without any huge issues due to savings/investments.

I mean of course we are providing labor for money, but this is very different than a blue-collar worker living paycheck to paycheck doing hard manual work.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#566

Post by ryandrake »

mk67 wrote: post #565
ryandrake wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. After about a decade of tech workers thinking we were part of some global aristocracy just because we could afford payments on a Tesla and could (briefly) get multiple job offers from companies... The minute we get into a bear market, suddenly we're all César Chávez, fighting for the working class. How the turn tables!

How can you count yourself as working class? Even outside top US salaries most of us could probably take several years off the job without any huge issues due to savings/investments. I mean of course we are providing labor for money, but this is very different than a blue-collar worker living paycheck to paycheck doing hard manual work.

We have far more in common with blue-collar workers living paycheck to paycheck than we have with an socialite whose inheritance grows faster than his or her ability to spend it.

Fundamentally, almost all of us are N missed paychecks away from bankruptcy. For a lot of people, that N is 1, for some, it's 2 or 3, or even higher if you managed to save wisely. But we all have some number N. And the fact that we have that number should unite us against the few people on the far side of the derivative curve whose N is infinite. Tech workers had their relatively brief moment in the sun where their N was maybe 10-20, it got to our heads a little, and we started thinking we were "very different than a blue-collar worker".

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#567

Post by vineyardmike »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #523
vineyardmike wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more to Microsoft than software engineers, even if there probably aren't many road construction workers. Most working-class people should get their COL adjustment. It should be easily taken from excess profits from raising prices.

Software engineers aren't working-class

Do they work for a salary?

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#568

Post by mk67 »

ryandrake wrote: post #566
mk67 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you count yourself as working class? Even outside top US salaries most of us could probably take several years off the job without any huge issues due to savings/investments. I mean of course we are providing labor for money, but this is very different than a blue-collar worker living paycheck to paycheck doing hard manual work.

We have far more in common with blue-collar workers living paycheck to paycheck than we have with an socialite whose inheritance grows faster than his or her ability to spend it. Fundamentally, almost all of us are N missed paychecks away from bankruptcy. For a lot of people, that N is 1, for some, it's 2 or 3, or even higher if you managed to save wisely. But we all have some number N. And the fact that we have that…

I agree, of course, that tech people are closer to the worker class than the capitalist class and there are many common interests.

On the other hand, as long as you manage your finances sanely, even in Europe you can reach a FIRE state (maybe not 100% retirement, but very close to it) in your 40s without too many issues.

If someone in tech is close to bankruptcy, due to missing a couple of paychecks, I really have a hard time to understand how they accomplished that. Of course, that may be different, if you just started your career.

Nevertheless, I know exactly 0 blue-collar workers (and I know quite a few) that could do FIRE in their 40s, and with sane financial management decouple themselves from the whole runmill in like 2-3 decades.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#569

Post by scarface74 »

throw9away6 wrote: post #549
scarface74 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep quoting this as religion. Making up numbers: If I only spend 50% of my take home and part of that 50% is going toward my fixed rate mortgage, is my spending power down by 5%?

Yes, but your investment from the home made up some of the difference possibly depending on when you bought. That’s a different source of wealth and one not everyone has.

Not an investment - more of an inflation hedge. Yes I realize that a primary home can be considered an investment. But that’s an often argued rabbit hole that I really don’t want to go down.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#570

Post by rcarmo »

rcarmo wrote: post #562
sgerenser wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does pay bonuses and stock refreshers, but outside of one-time “Special stock awards” (which I’ve heard is mainly reserved for retention of people likely to jump ship), the refreshers aren’t very significant until you reach level 65 (principal). At least compared to refreshers at other major tech companies. It depends on the exact level and how well the employee negotiated their sign-on RSUs, but most emplo…

Level 65 is not Principal across the orgs (I’m an IC6 and reached Principal below that). My experience is different (or else I got retention every year…)

Downvoters should realize their org isn’t special in any way.
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