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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

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Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#311

Post by batista »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #303
dagw wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people purchase Mac OS X based computers then want to run GNU coreutils on top of it Because only Apple has figured out how to make and sell great laptops running Unix at a (relatively) reasonable price and where all the hardware and drivers just works out of the box. If I could have bought a computer as good as the macbook Air in every way, but with Linux instead of OS X and guarenteed zero dr…

My wifi is still broken after the Lion upgrade. I tried everything and no one has been able to figure it out, including Apple's support. The only thing that works is replacing the Atheros driver with the Snow Leopard one. So much for drivers just working.

I wish users could understand they are not the center of the universe, and "one machine I got didn't work for me" doesn't automatically translate to "those brand of machines are bad". Bugs, problems, bad runs, happen with everything. One personal case (or 10,000 or 50,000) out of some 30,000,000 computers, is NOT the determining factor in respect to whether a brand of hardware works reliably or not.

"Just works" is relative. Given that Apple controls both the Wifi card and the driver for their machines, and that it offers a limited range of such cards, it sure is better poised to "just work" than some obscure wifi card used in a PC alongside with some third-party open source driver for it. This is, pretty much, common sense.

So, as relativity goes, it's pretty much true, or Apple wouldn't hold the higher user satisfaction position of multiple years in a row, with over 20% distance from the second runner.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#313

Post by fauigerzigerk »

batista wrote: post #311
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wifi is still broken after the Lion upgrade. I tried everything and no one has been able to figure it out, including Apple's support. The only thing that works is replacing the Atheros driver with the Snow Leopard one. So much for drivers just working.

I wish users could understand they are not the center of the universe, and "one machine I got didn't work for me" doesn't automatically translate to "those brand of machines are bad". Bugs, problems, bad runs, happen with everything. One personal case (or 10,000 or 50,000) out of some 30,000,000 computers, is NOT the determining factor in respect to whether a brand of hardware works reliably or not. "Just works" is r…

If I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands, I expect to have driver issues fixed in short order. It's been 7 months now and a lot of other people have the same problem. It's an undisputed bug. What on earth does that have to do with any relativity or user satisfaction statistics?

I wasn't making any statistical claims whatsoever. I replied to someone talking about "zero driver or hardware comparability issues".

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#314

Post by thenduks »

hendrix wrote: post #278
thenduks wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, contrary to this article, I think you'd find that most developers using Macs use them more for the OS than for the hardware. If I could build a seriously beefy desktop machine and run OSX properly on it, I would. For laptops the nice hardware (as others have said, especially the trackpad, but there are plenty of other reasons) is a definite plus, but OSX is just great. Wanting some specific hardware for a d…

You can, it's called a Hackintosh.

Tried it several times over the years. Unfortunately it doesn't meet the 'properly' criteria :)

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#315

Post by batista »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #313
batista wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish users could understand they are not the center of the universe, and "one machine I got didn't work for me" doesn't automatically translate to "those brand of machines are bad". Bugs, problems, bad runs, happen with everything. One personal case (or 10,000 or 50,000) out of some 30,000,000 computers, is NOT the determining factor in respect to whether a brand of hardware works reliably or not. "Just works" is r…

If I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands, I expect to have driver issues fixed in short order. It's been 7 months now and a lot of other people have the same problem. It's an undisputed bug. What on earth does that have to do with any relativity or user satisfaction statistics? I wasn't making any statistical claims whatsoever. I replied to someone talking about "zero driver or hardware comparability is…

If I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands

For starters, you are not. You are just buying the equivalent of top-tier machines from other brands. If you compare the equivalents hw specs AND build quality (from the external design to the materials like aluminum used, to the extra cost for an unibody construction, to the extra engineering effort and cost to pack things lightly and thin, to the thunderbolt ports, to the display quality etc), you either end up same price, or cheaper or the thing doesn't exist at all in the PC side. Even worse with iPads and iPhones, which have competitors struggling to compete on price.

I expect to have driver issues fixed in short order

Well, I guess you can go to an Applestore and have the machine changed if it doesn't work, or get your money back.

But in general "X issue fixed in short order" is not how it works, even when buying mainframes for top dollar. Sometimes you just have to wait until the engineers find the root of the problem and come up with a solution. Sometimes it even takes the next generation of machines for the problem to be fixed, if it's a HW bug. Sometimes it never does, if it affects some small percentage of machines with some strange setup (e.g with that brand of router, when set to those settings, etc).

I replied to someone talking about "zero driver or hardware comparability issues".

If anyone claims "zero driver or hardware comparability issues, he is clearly delusional or just speaks for himself. iBooks circa 2003 even had their logic boards fail multiple times, for example. Or G5's had strange goo coming out from their cooling system. I had a failed DVD on a Macbook Pro. Still, the same kind of things happen to PC runs all the time (I've had too many such cases from '91 to '05), they are just so fragmented as a platform that you never get to hear from them.

A Macbook run is 10 million machines of the same* specs. How much is an Asus 105-SH/i-mkII run? Or a Dell run, considering it offers 2,000 build to order configuration combinations? 1% of a Macbook run in hundreds of thousands of people, 1% of those runs is like nothing, so you don't get to hear much. Not to mention that they don't have forums and sites dedicated to the machines, anyway, just broad websites for all PCs.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#316

Post by rbanffy »

ciparis wrote: post #291
rbanffy wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8GB would reduce battery life and, in some computers, it's not even an option. My Dell notebook is maxed out at 4. And I don't want the extra memory because I prefer long battery life.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not :)

serious || !serious == true

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#317

Post by dagw »

vacri wrote: post #264
dagw wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people purchase Mac OS X based computers then want to run GNU coreutils on top of it Because only Apple has figured out how to make and sell great laptops running Unix at a (relatively) reasonable price and where all the hardware and drivers just works out of the box. If I could have bought a computer as good as the macbook Air in every way, but with Linux instead of OS X and guarenteed zero dr…

How does the Lenovo x-series compare for you, where does it not measure up? I was recently at a linux conference and probably about 60-70% of delegates had either an Apple or a Lenovo laptop.

I've used IBM and Lenovo x-series (x41 and x60) laptops before and while I'm generally a fan and would definitely go with them as my number two choice, I've never had one "Just Work" with Linux. It's always very close, but there is always something. The x-220 was also more expensive for equivalent specs when I bough my Air, especially if you took into account the cost of replacing whatever drive it came with with a 120GB SSD. Also it is slightly larger and slightly heavier than the air, and for me size and weight where a big factor.

Then there are minor things like that there are no stores anywhere around here that sells them, meaning I'd have to buy one without playing with it first. Also it's basically impossible to buy one without a Swedish keyboard layout in Sweden, while Apple will happily let me choose any keyboard layout I want. None of these are deal-breakers in them selves but they're things that kind of add up.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#318

Post by Terretta »

prakashk wrote: post #174
pooriaazimi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about your little script (though I too have a lot of heavy apps open all the time and almost never reboot, and certainly have never, ever had any memory-related problems whatsoever). My MBP has 8 GBs of RAM, and this is what Activity Monitor tells me: Free: 2.19 GB Wired: 1.01 GB Active: 3.70 GB Inactive: 1.08 GB Used: 5.80 GB but, you scripts gives me: 2598.480 MB Why is that? Isn't Active kinda analog…

I think that's because 'ps -x' command only gives your own processes and not all processes. Add '-a' option to show stats for all processes.

You're right, typo. It's supposed to be -ax.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#319

Post by cs702 »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #310
cs702 wrote: post #126

I agree with the author: Apple has by far the best hardware in the PC business -- here's a great example of the extremes they go to in order to manufacture superior machines: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/apples-supplychain-secr... Alas, Apple's #1 target user is not the developer; it's Aunt Tillie. And this shows in the choices they make for OS X. IMO Linux distributions have vastly superior software installa…

I've never had any of the hardware in my three Thinkpads fail on me. My Macbook, in the space of three years, had its plastic casing start to flake off, its battery failed, its power adapter failed, its hard drive failed. The other piece of Apple hardware I owned is a TimeCapsule. That lasted a couple of years before it conked out. Luckily this was a known problem and I got a free replacement. I have a friend who wen…

mike-cardwell,

I had the internal fan on a Thinkpad suddenly fail at a critical time during a business trip, rendering the laptop unusable. Very unpleasant. The machine was less than two years old. It soured me on the Thinkpad brand.

Based on your comment, and given your high HN karma, I'll reconsider Thinkpads. I just bought a System76, but next time I'm on the market for a new laptop, I'll look at Lenovo's offerings.

Thanks!

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#320

Post by fauigerzigerk »

batista wrote: post #315
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands, I expect to have driver issues fixed in short order. It's been 7 months now and a lot of other people have the same problem. It's an undisputed bug. What on earth does that have to do with any relativity or user satisfaction statistics? I wasn't making any statistical claims whatsoever. I replied to someone talking about "zero driver or hardware comparability is…

If I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands For starters, you are not. You are just buying the equivalent of top-tier machines from other brands. If you compare the equivalents hw specs AND build quality (from the external design to the materials like aluminum used, to the extra cost for an unibody construction, to the extra engineering effort and cost to pack things lightly and thin, to the thunderbolt po…

Your way of comparing hardware is not very useful for me. It just shows your own personal preferences, and I don't share your preferences. For me, "unibody construction" adds about as much value as a gilded keyboard would.

So when I said "I'm paying double what I would pay for other brands" I meant it literally, including the "I". The set of machines that meet my requirements includes machines from the likes of Toshiba that cost less than half of Apple's cheapest offering.

The reason why I still bought from Apple is that I need a Unix system and I hate dealing with driver issues. So having to deal with unfixed driver issues is the quickest way to drive me away.

(I did not downvote you by the way)

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