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Go with PHP

gowithphp.com

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Re: Go with PHP

#121

Post by Demoloto »

keyle wrote: post #17

As a fullstack developer who has worked many, many years in the javascript hellhole, I mean ecosystem, as well as the python ecosystem and .NET; coming back to PHP the last 2 years, working essentially in Laravel and the like - I couldn't approve more of this message. Seriously, PHP is the grand father that will drive you to class and you'll never be late, the car will never smell and everything will always just be f…

Have a look at quarkus.

Thanks to JVM you have really good out of the box debugging features including hot code replacement and profiling.

You can use kotlin which is a really really good language in comparison to PHP.

There is no need in my opinion to write real applications with PHP.

Re: Go with PHP

#122

Post by sph »

Elte wrote: post #78
acherion wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laravel is [...] reasonably well documented Hard disagree. Sorry, I don't have a computer science degree, why does their documentation make that assumption. I find their docs very hard to grok. PHP.net docs are no-frills no-fuss, straight to the point. Other frameworks are documented very well too, CakePHP comes to mind (at least, when I was using it last in v2 and v3). I can't say I've read the absolute latest ver…

The documentation reads like a tutorial, which is fine the first time you read it, and really annoying the next 99 times when you're just trying to find something. My biggest gripe though is that the majority of classes / methods aren't locally documented with comments, or only minimally. If I don't understand how a certain parameter behaves (or even what a function does), I have to go online and search for examples,…

> The documentation reads like a tutorial, which is fine the first time you read it, and really annoying the next 99 times when you're just trying to find something.

Ah yes, the Ansible approach. I've used it for a decade, and I routinely get lost in its utterly terrible by-example documentation.

They are the golden standard on how not to write documentation.

God, I hate the Ansible docs so much, they are the reason I burned 30% of my Kagi search quota this month.

Re: Go with PHP

#123

Post by bilekas »

0xblinq wrote: post #93
safety1st wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100%. It's actually a bit of a red flag to me these days if a developer turns up their nose at PHP. The language has matured a lot and building stuff with it is simple, cheap, straightforward and fast. If someone's still hating on PHP in 2023 it makes me wonder if they've been focused on more exotic technology because they were looking to pad their resume with more expensive skills, build science projects for th…

Don't you dare to tell me that my isomorphic Node trpc graphql with redux and sagas on top of next.js with SSG and SSR and parts in server components with my home grown validation and ORM framework and still no translations because they don't work together with everything else and deployed on serverless docker lambdas to a kubernetes cluster is over engineering a landing page with a contact form. So fast! That's a st…

This made me giggle because I've heard stuff like this in serious situations.

Re: Go with PHP

#125

Post by 0xblinq »

bilekas wrote: post #123
0xblinq wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you dare to tell me that my isomorphic Node trpc graphql with redux and sagas on top of next.js with SSG and SSR and parts in server components with my home grown validation and ORM framework and still no translations because they don't work together with everything else and deployed on serverless docker lambdas to a kubernetes cluster is over engineering a landing page with a contact form. So fast! That's a st…

This made me giggle because I've heard stuff like this in serious situations.

Of course, it's based of my personal experience too. I'm not claiming I invented this at all.

Re: Go with PHP

#126

Post by bearmode »

acherion wrote: post #51
keyle wrote: post #17

As a fullstack developer who has worked many, many years in the javascript hellhole, I mean ecosystem, as well as the python ecosystem and .NET; coming back to PHP the last 2 years, working essentially in Laravel and the like - I couldn't approve more of this message. Seriously, PHP is the grand father that will drive you to class and you'll never be late, the car will never smell and everything will always just be f…

> Laravel is [...] reasonably well documented Hard disagree. Sorry, I don't have a computer science degree, why does their documentation make that assumption. I find their docs very hard to grok. PHP.net docs are no-frills no-fuss, straight to the point. Other frameworks are documented very well too, CakePHP comes to mind (at least, when I was using it last in v2 and v3). I can't say I've read the absolute latest ver…

Really? I don't have a comp sci degree either, and yet I find the Laravel docs incredibly easy to grok. Do you have any specific examples of things you've struggled to understand?

Re: Go with PHP

#127

Post by zelphirkalt »

keyle wrote: post #69
safety1st wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100%. It's actually a bit of a red flag to me these days if a developer turns up their nose at PHP. The language has matured a lot and building stuff with it is simple, cheap, straightforward and fast. If someone's still hating on PHP in 2023 it makes me wonder if they've been focused on more exotic technology because they were looking to pad their resume with more expensive skills, build science projects for th…

I think it's a case that unfortunately many people don't understand how simple a solution can be. They've been fed the typical books and articles and firmly believe that if it's just PHP it just can't be good. Right? I mean going through all this pain and requiring that many developers, means that this solution has to be much better? Right? On the one end of the scale you've got the PHP Laravel monolith, and on the o…

One does not need PHP for that. Most well known traditional web framework with server side template rendering will do.

But yeah, before you jump through the whole ecosystem of JS and require 3 different third party services, only to make a website, that does not work with JS turned off and cannot be build and run any longer 3 month later, due to dependency fup, you are much better off with unsexy PHP.

Re: Go with PHP

#128

Post by EGreg »

KRAKRISMOTT wrote: post #97
EGreg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a framework that is radically different but also PHP-native (since PHP 5), would you like to spend an hour playing with https://github.com/Qbix/Platform ? If you do, please share your experience in a comment. I’d love to hear it. I architected this framework over the last decade :)

The way your landing page is laid out isn't doing you any favors. If you are going to build a rapid application development platform, look at Retool for inspiration in terms of designs and copywriting. Cut the token stuff, otherwise you will lose customers or self select for crypto bros. The license you chose will turn off most professional development shops and the ones using the platform would be based in places li…

You seem to know what you’re talking about.

I checked out payloadcms though, that site is pretty terrible…

Re: Go with PHP

#130

Post by EGreg »

pkphilip wrote: post #94
EGreg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a framework that is radically different but also PHP-native (since PHP 5), would you like to spend an hour playing with https://github.com/Qbix/Platform ? If you do, please share your experience in a comment. I’d love to hear it. I architected this framework over the last decade :)

Very interesting. I am shocked that this is the first time I am hearing of your framework. Any chance you can make the app setup work using composure instead of cloning from the git repo? It may increase visibility to your project. But in any case, great job with the platform!

Will look into it. You likely meant composer?
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