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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#511

Post by vineyardmike »

smegger001 wrote: post #292
heyoni wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionize.

hard to make that call to strike when there are many recently unemployed tech workers looking for work. sure you might get what you want or you might get fired and replaced by someone willing to work for lower compensation

for anyone reading: its VERY illegal in the US for a company to retaliate for your interest in unionizing. You will probably win a large lawsuit if this happens.

Realistically, I doubt a SWE union is around the corner, but Alphabet does have a union that employees can join - so could your company! It seems most people think that unionizing would go poorly and result in job-loss, but it might not. It's easy for fast food companies or retail companies to close a location to lay-off anyone near a union, but if you're in the HQ as a corporate employee, you have to consider the behavior of professional unions (eg. the film writers union, currently on strike).

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#512

Post by makeitdouble »

ChrisHyung wrote: post #459
makeitdouble wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it help road construction workers if we accept lower conditions ? It's not a zero sum game, and I totally side with other professions to fight for decent working compensations.

Doesn't it actually help with inflationary spending? The Fed making a play at depressing wages and increasing unemployment is what's keeping inflation in check. God knows the rich won't ever pay their fair share.

That reminds me of this hilarious interview of a British economist: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65308769

> Somehow in the UK, someone needs to accept that they're worse off and stop trying to maintain their real spending power [...]

You're both totally right that giving people enough money to live might increase the inflation. But that's not an option people are (rightly so) going to be happy with. "Just be miserable" is not a plan.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#513

Post by therealdrag0 »

scarface74 wrote: post #461
taurath wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not hard to beat microsoft packages, they've been under market rate for a while

So name 10 companies that are paying what Microsoft is paying that are profitable and haven’t announced layoffs? And that doesn’t include meaningless “equity” in a private company.

I don’t wanna dox myself but I work for a public company who’s stock didn’t crash and who hasn’t laid anyone off and we pay similar to MS (or more if you ignore all the random perks MS gives)

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#514

Post by npteljes »

whitemary wrote: post #380
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

> This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. Profit itself is unethical.

Good luck motivating people with anything else.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#515

Post by glenngillen »

screwturner68 wrote: post #472
glenngillen wrote: post #435

I wrote up some notes on my observed realities on how mid-size and up tech companies approach compensation: https://glenngillen.com/sensible-remote-compensation/ Employees have a mistaken belief that if profits are high they get to share in the spoils, they won't. Shareholders are who get those rewards. Either via increased valuation, dividends, buybacks, or all of the above. The only exception to that would be emplo…

I'm fine that but let's cut the bullshit. Quit trying to create a "culture", we are not family, we are not friends, we owe each other nothing aside from a paycheck and 40h of work a week, we don't need to help each other, we don't need to innovate, we don't need to show up early or leave late, we are strictly transactional. Don't be surprised when I leave for $1 an hour raise, don't be surprised when I don't go the e…

I’ve experienced both. The best job I ever had was with a small, excited, inspiring team of people at a place that over-indexed on the culture stuff. Truly a wonderful experience. But it just can’t scale. It’s also super expensive (at least the way it was implemented in that place). But suddenly you’re 1000 people, pretending you’re all “family”, when in reality you don’t even know the names of half the people around you, the people calling you family certainly don’t know yours, and it’s too expensive to actually do anything a family would do together so it never happens.

Your point is 100% accurate though. We all deserve no bullshit. Just be honest with what we owe and will give each other. I know there’s been a couple of former SV darlings that have fallen out of favour because of leadership mandates about what is or isn’t appropriate at work, what they value, what your expectations should be to work there. I might not agree with them but that’s not the point. I love the blunt honesty. Huge signal on whether I want to spend 40hrs a week with these people or not. And so much more valuable than empty and aspirational values statements (or worse, recruitment marketing masquerading as values).

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#516

Post by throw123123123 »

somenameforme wrote: post #492
throw123123123 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages are not downstream of profits - they are a price in a market for labor. If companies could pay 0 they would pay 0, and if employees could charge infinite they would charge infinite. It's better this way - otherwise employees at companies that make no money would have to take no salary.

Many small businesses seek to treat their employees well. It's not out of some ulterior 5D chess profit seeking scheme, nor is it out of naivete of the fact that they could earn more. But simply out of having some degree of social values and ethics. Wanting to make a profit or to become rich, isn't the same as being willing to screw everybody (or anybody) over in pursuit of such. In America today only 57% [1] of peop…

It's not related to capitalism or labor organization. It's that the relationship between profits and wages is misunderstood. If you want your income to be completely tied to the business results, you want to be a business owner.

There is no sociopathy, it is a simple enterprise where someone absorbs the risk and others don't - it is collaboration.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#517

Post by saagarjha »

fingerlocks wrote: post #506
saagarjha wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why pay software engineers anyways? We should just have the company leadership code, it’d save a lot of money.

I’m familiar with the work you’ve done, I respect you, and I know you know that this is a ridiculous and argument. You can walk into any hardware store and buy a new toilet, and the installation instructions are included. Its dead simple. IKEA furniture is often more difficult.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous, but perhaps I haven’t fully explained my position? I have never installed a toilet but I’m confident that I could go into a store and buy one, and the instructions are probably straightforward. That said, I would probably still call a plumber because the risk of me doing it wrong seems uncomfortably high, and I could end up with a smelly mess or thousands of dollars in water damage.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#518

Post by therealdrag0 »

nineplay wrote: post #113
tombert wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree, but fundamentally I think this will lead to "anyone who can find a higher-paying job will find a higher paying job." Part of what's enticing about these "blue-chip" megatech corporations like Microsoft or Apple is that they pay good salaries. Most work at these companies is not interesting (at least it wasn't at Apple), but you stay because the pay is good. If the pay is shit, I'll take…

A lot comes down to what life stage employees are in. Someone with fixed monthly costs and kids in school is not going to want to a) move and b) deal with the anxiety of working at a start up. Probably companies are banking on that.

Nor want to study leetcode and spend time stressing interviews just to get rejected cuz there was hundreds of other candidates etc.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#519

Post by fingerlocks »

saagarjha wrote: post #517
fingerlocks wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m familiar with the work you’ve done, I respect you, and I know you know that this is a ridiculous and argument. You can walk into any hardware store and buy a new toilet, and the installation instructions are included. Its dead simple. IKEA furniture is often more difficult.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous, but perhaps I haven’t fully explained my position? I have never installed a toilet but I’m confident that I could go into a store and buy one, and the instructions are probably straightforward. That said, I would probably still call a plumber because the risk of me doing it wrong seems uncomfortably high, and I could end up with a smelly mess or thousands of dollars in water damage.

And my position is that teaching you to install a toilet without causing water damage by turning the shutoff valve 90 degrees is in no way comparable to teaching c-suites to code.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#520

Post by justinclift »

Microsoft to shareholders: "We've had our highest ever revenue, and made the largest profit ever! Yay us!"

Microsoft to employees: "We're really struggling here, so please work hard! Also, fuck you!"

Do they really think their employees aren't going to notice?

Sources:

* https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global...

* https://www.statista.com/statistics/267808/net-income-of-mic...

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