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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#501

Post by cat_plus_plus »

FactKnower69 wrote: post #485
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #305

Even the biggest corporate CEOs get confused by socialist talk and end up recreating some of socialist inefficiencies in their own companies. Why would I invest exceptional effort or take risk working on far fetched projects if exceptional success in terms of market share or profits will not be rewarded? If I am good, I can work 6 hours a day and still be the most productive employee on the team. How does one-fit-all…

Socialism is when workers own their workplaces, and receive the full amount of value that their labor creates, rather than that value being arbitrarily allocated by the owners of the firm. It has absolutely nothing to do with your imaginary concept of everyone getting assigned identical compensation. Bizarre post, you may as well have typed some gibberish word rather than "socialist".

Well, I don't think we made net profit yet and I don't want to work for free.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#502

Post by saagarjha »

fingerlocks wrote: post #208
efields wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plumber at the house with an overflowing toilet sure has some leverage, too.

I mean, not really. Every house has a main water shutoff valve. You can watch a 5 minute YouTube video on how to snake a toilet yourself. Or spend an hour installing a new toilet.

Why pay software engineers anyways? We should just have the company leadership code, it’d save a lot of money.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#503

Post by saagarjha »

WalterBright wrote: post #191
kranke155 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the number of engineers available to do the work.

That number is entirely dependent on their leverage. It works like this. If I could hire bob for $10, but he produces $100 worth of value, hell yes I'm going to hire Bob. But Evil Corp sees that and thinks "damn, I want Bob to contribute $100 to my bottom line, so I'll hire him away from Bright Corp by enticing him with $20 pay. Then, BadAss Corp thinks the same thing, and hires Bob away for $30. This process repeats…

> This process repeats until Bob's pay + opportunity cost == $100.

I usually find that this typically stops at something like $10 for most people. Despite people being “valuable for millions” offers for that much don’t magically seem to spring up. The people I know making a million a year typically make the company tens of millions…

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#504

Post by nforgerit »

saagarjha wrote: post #502
fingerlocks wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, not really. Every house has a main water shutoff valve. You can watch a 5 minute YouTube video on how to snake a toilet yourself. Or spend an hour installing a new toilet.

Why pay software engineers anyways? We should just have the company leadership code, it’d save a lot of money.

Problem tho is that they're already pretty busy managing managers that are themselves managing managers.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#505

Post by saagarjha »

nforgerit wrote: post #504
saagarjha wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why pay software engineers anyways? We should just have the company leadership code, it’d save a lot of money.

Problem tho is that they're already pretty busy managing managers that are themselves managing managers.

Right, and most people have things to do and time that is better spent not learning how to install a toilet.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#506

Post by fingerlocks »

saagarjha wrote: post #502
fingerlocks wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, not really. Every house has a main water shutoff valve. You can watch a 5 minute YouTube video on how to snake a toilet yourself. Or spend an hour installing a new toilet.

Why pay software engineers anyways? We should just have the company leadership code, it’d save a lot of money.

I’m familiar with the work you’ve done, I respect you, and I know you know that this is a ridiculous and argument. You can walk into any hardware store and buy a new toilet, and the installation instructions are included. Its dead simple. IKEA furniture is often more difficult.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#507

Post by vineyardmike »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #431
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

> salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least Software engineers are some of the most priviledged workers in the west when it comes to compensation and perks. We need to stop talking about them like they are road construction workers here on HN. it is really out of touch

There's more to Microsoft than software engineers, even if there probably aren't many road construction workers.

Most working-class people should get their COL adjustment. It should be easily taken from excess profits from raising prices.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#508

Post by therealdrag0 »

verst wrote: post #429
costcofries wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hurts junior employees the most. Tenured employees have equity as a large part of their comp, they are invested in the stock price, not the few % annual bump.

Not really true for Microsoft. At Microsoft we generally do not get significant new stock grants or refresh grants, even on promotion no new stock is granted often. This may be different for principal engineers or certainly partner level folks - but senior engineers with more than 4 years of tenure will have essentially no significant stock to vest.

My partner gets at least like 17% of comp as new RSU a year, and on top of that has gotten large special one time grants. The ratio of RSU is maybe lower than other companies (mine is 1/3 my comp.) but that’s kinda a good thing, especially with the large performance cash bonuses. I rather have cash than stock.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#509

Post by heywhatupboys »

sublinear wrote: post #470
heywhatupboys wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least Software engineers are some of the most priviledged workers in the west when it comes to compensation and perks. We need to stop talking about them like they are road construction workers here on HN. it is really out of touch

Maybe it's different in other places, but have you seen the paychecks of some construction workers? Sure they are working in potentially hazardous conditions, but the pay can be about the same for similarly tenured workers. It's important to remember that if you're working for a living, you're still working class.

> It's important to remember that if you're working for a living, you're still working class.

absolutely not.

"the social group consisting primarily of people who are employed in unskilled or semi-skilled manual or industrial work."

""Working class" is a socioeconomic term used to describe persons in a social class marked by jobs that provide low pay, require limited skill, "

comparing software engineers with factory workers, etc. is incredibly out of touch. Most SE's wouldn't survive a week in hard labor work.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#510

Post by glenngillen »

tdrgabi wrote: post #467
glenngillen wrote: post #435

I wrote up some notes on my observed realities on how mid-size and up tech companies approach compensation: https://glenngillen.com/sensible-remote-compensation/ Employees have a mistaken belief that if profits are high they get to share in the spoils, they won't. Shareholders are who get those rewards. Either via increased valuation, dividends, buybacks, or all of the above. The only exception to that would be emplo…

What resources can you recommend to learn how to advocate strongly in this context?

Curse of knowledge applies here unfortunately, in that it was so long ago I can’t be a reliable source on how to learn now. I recall being recommended “never split the difference” at some point and reading it and finding it useful (again, so long ago I can’t remember what’s actually in the book now).

I’d also try to hunt down a peer or someone just slightly more senior than you who you suspect is better at this than you and ask them for advice. Consider treating it a little bit like a behavioural job interview though. Questions like “so for your last promotion cycle, when did you start the conversation with your boss? What did you present to them? What format/medium? How often? What was the result? What did you expect? Did you have a Plan B? How often are you exploring other options just in case?” not so much “what would you do in this situation?”. If they’re successful you’ve more to learn from what is actually working from them rather than their hypothetical ideal.

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