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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#481

Post by atq2119 »

areoform wrote: post #387
whitemary wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. Profit itself is unethical.

> Profit itself is unethical. This statement is unethical. It's a very strange thing to claim that profit is unethical. In tech companies, profit is an indication that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts — i.e. so much wealth has been created that there's an excess of it.

The question is more about who gets to capture the created wealth:

- people who gave money to enable the activity leading to profit (aka capital)

- people who organize the activity leading to profit (aka management)

- people who actually do the work

Obviously, each of these groups has some legitimate claim to the added value, but it's also pretty obvious that over the last 50 years or so, the balance in the economy as a whole has tilted towards capital and upper management in a way that can't really be justified on an ethical basis. (Just look at how the correlation between wages and productivity disappeared in the 1970s.)

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#482

Post by lynx23 »

ChrisHyung wrote: post #459
makeitdouble wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it help road construction workers if we accept lower conditions ? It's not a zero sum game, and I totally side with other professions to fight for decent working compensations.

Doesn't it actually help with inflationary spending? The Fed making a play at depressing wages and increasing unemployment is what's keeping inflation in check. God knows the rich won't ever pay their fair share.

Fairness is an illusion in thsi universe, as is God.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#483

Post by htag »

ryanSrich wrote: post #367
Firmwarrior wrote: post #308

Man oh man. Microsoft really just has no interest in keeping motivated and talented people around. The brain drain is going to ramp up even more from here If you're still at MSFT: do yourself a favor and jump ship. It's a good job, but there are even better jobs out there. Just tell the recruiter when you get your new job offer that you've been drinking $5,000 a year's worth of free soda, and you'll need them to matc…

This is pretty terrible advice when the job market, even for extremely well qualified and experienced engineers, is less than ideal. If you’re a highly paid engineer I’d suggest holding on to that job for at least another 24 months.

> less than ideal

Yea, things aren't perfect and risk free so you might as well not even look at your options for change. /s

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#484

Post by screwturner68 »

pacaro wrote: post #327
Firmwarrior wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as bad as you'd think, especially for someone with a big name like Microsoft on their resume Satya and his pals in the C-suite are relying on naïveté, since they know most of their employees are busy working diligently instead of weaseling up job offers all the time

It doesn't matter either way, people have long enough memories, there will be an exodus when the job market picks up too. MS did the same thing twice while I was there (99–13) It's a good thing. It helps remind people that the company is not a person, it doesn't repay loyalty with loyalty. Your income is the bottom line of how you are valued, they've chosen to send a message to remind you of this

In my 20 years (not MS) we've had 2-3 temporary pay cuts during downturns to avoid layoffs -a 5% pay cut sucks but the job you save may be your own. In 20 years I've seen somewhere around 200,000 of my co-workers RIF'ed, 10,000 on the day I was hired. The company has always made it's numbers, the CXOs have always been paid more than my life's total income and yet they always ask us to do more for less. I'd like to finish out my career here but it does appear that the grass is greener and despite what I think and how I feel the company won't care and will be fine without me. Everyone should remember that.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#485

Post by FactKnower69 »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #305

Even the biggest corporate CEOs get confused by socialist talk and end up recreating some of socialist inefficiencies in their own companies. Why would I invest exceptional effort or take risk working on far fetched projects if exceptional success in terms of market share or profits will not be rewarded? If I am good, I can work 6 hours a day and still be the most productive employee on the team. How does one-fit-all…

Socialism is when workers own their workplaces, and receive the full amount of value that their labor creates, rather than that value being arbitrarily allocated by the owners of the firm. It has absolutely nothing to do with your imaginary concept of everyone getting assigned identical compensation. Bizarre post, you may as well have typed some gibberish word rather than "socialist".

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#486

Post by Hermitian909 »

ericd wrote: post #443
Hermitian909 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that's a fair characterization of risk profiles. As an employee you're still taking a risk at the company. It falls over you are out 100% of your pay + your health benefits. As an employee I absolutely take this risk into account when evaluating an employer. Shareholders sometimes take a similar risk, but are often reasonably insulated from major downside via financial mechanisms of varying complexity, f…

An investment that’s insulated from risk generally has a negative real return (at least as long as the risk-free rate is negative). Insurance via options is very expensive.

The idea I'm trying to convey is not no risk it's risk capped at tolerable levels for plausible outcomes (index funds can go to zero in principle). The latter is often an option that is available to capital holders.

Employment conversely, is almost always placing all your eggs in your employer's basket. If the basket tumbles many employees will lose their shirt in a big way.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#487

Post by heleninboodler »

gigel82 wrote: post #120
diversionfactor wrote: post #106

And yet, at exactly this time last year: "Microsoft to Nearly Double Salary Budgets, Expand Stock Compensation" https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensatio... So they are freezing after the doubling? This behavior seems skittish and an overreaction, especially given their continued profitability and high margins. Corporate executive behavior reminds me of interacting with ChatGPT: Exec: "What should…

They didn't double the salary budget, that was such a well played PR bs by MS. They doubled the "salary increase" budget for lower levels (so instead of getting a 1% increase per year, they'd give out 2% - to the lower levels). I talked with a friend at MS and they said not only are they not getting any increase at all this year, the stock and bonus are going down to (or even lower than) last year's levels (before th…

Even so, getting double the salary increase last year and zero salary increase this year instead of a layoff isn't a bad deal.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#489

Post by imperfect_light »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #431
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

> salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least Software engineers are some of the most priviledged workers in the west when it comes to compensation and perks. We need to stop talking about them like they are road construction workers here on HN. it is really out of touch

This is like the old "athletes are too greedy!" as if the alternative is the team owners (well known for being non-greedy?) should keep that money instead.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#490

Post by andsoitis »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #476
andsoitis wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> desperate for good tech people …great people don’t want to be held back by average people.

Most people who consider themselves to be great are painfully average.

Absolutely. But because they think they’re great and others are average, they still glom together.
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