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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#441

Post by dv_dt »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #431
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

> salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least Software engineers are some of the most priviledged workers in the west when it comes to compensation and perks. We need to stop talking about them like they are road construction workers here on HN. it is really out of touch

Let’s say all workers should get a cost of living adjustment…

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#443

Post by ericd »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #418
csomar wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to understand. There are two classes: Shareholders and Employees. Always been. One take the risk and reward and one take a fixed salary. Some people want to have their cake and eat it too (ie: take a fixed/stable salary while also a slice of the profit).

I don't know that's a fair characterization of risk profiles. As an employee you're still taking a risk at the company. It falls over you are out 100% of your pay + your health benefits. As an employee I absolutely take this risk into account when evaluating an employer. Shareholders sometimes take a similar risk, but are often reasonably insulated from major downside via financial mechanisms of varying complexity, f…

An investment that’s insulated from risk generally has a negative real return (at least as long as the risk-free rate is negative). Insurance via options is very expensive.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#444

Post by forgetfreeman »

achates wrote: post #417
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

Wages are a function of the supply and demand for labor. If the business loses money the employees don't have to chip in money to make up the loss, but on the flip side they don't share in profits.

When did layoffs stop being a thing?

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#445

Post by makeitdouble »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #431
korginator wrote: post #365

With the rate of inflation and interest rates going up, salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least, even if we forget about a bonus or a big pay hike. This decision is unethical to full-time employees seeing the tidy profit they made. It's a clear signal to the employees not to expect any practical reward for hard work, what a great way to motivate people. This is yet another large and powerf…

> salaried workers need a cost of living adjustment at the very least Software engineers are some of the most priviledged workers in the west when it comes to compensation and perks. We need to stop talking about them like they are road construction workers here on HN. it is really out of touch

Does it help road construction workers if we accept lower conditions ?

It's not a zero sum game, and I totally side with other professions to fight for decent working compensations.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#446

Post by andsoitis »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #400
thekashifmalik wrote: post #329

I don't understand the framing here; isn't salary dependent on job competition in the market (one which is currently full of layoffs) and has little to do with company profts? Bonuses are what are usually tied to company performance. I'm simplifying, of course, but trying to understand the issue.

Yes, it is. You’re right. That’s how bean counters and HR and sr management see it: what’s the absolute minimum we can pay our people. Wiser outfits stay above that fray and compensate commensurate with employee expectations too. If you’re not getting a CoL or inflationary increase, you’re getting a pay cut. Plain and simple. AI writing all the code for companies isn’t here yet, so I think for now they’d be wiser to…

> commensurate with employee expectations too

Expectations are surely based on what the market will bear. So if tech companies are all trying to cut costs and hence limit pay rises, it would be irrational for an employee to expect more.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#447

Post by AverageDude »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #353
AverageDude wrote: post #330

I wish there was a political party who had guts to take on these kind of people. I wish!

Won't someone think of the poor software engineers??

It’s not about poor or rich engineers, it’s about fairness. When people at the top do that, people at other organisations take a page out of their book at rinse and repeat. It’s corporate version of monkey see monkey do. And the worst affected will be on the lower side of salary scales.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#448

Post by AverageDude »

petersellers wrote: post #395
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? And force a company that has mostly employees in the top 2% to pay them even more? I'm not sure the average person cares. To force them to charge less for their product? To hire people they don't need? What are you expecting?

You can increase the income taxes of wealthy people considerably (specifically income taxes, not business taxes). A 50%+ marginal rate will help motivate C-level execs to opt for re-investing profits into their business rather than into buybacks of their stock to boost their own personal income. At the same time you'd be helping to provide services that will benefit the lives of the bottom 90% of the country with hig…

This. Wondering how easily people make things so simplistic (as the other commenters are doing).

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#449

Post by andsoitis »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #323

$18.3B in profit is pretty amazing by anyone’s standard. Especially with no pay bumps following. 20-30 years from now this will be used as a reference in history as an indication of how completely fucked up the world’s economy was at this time in history. It’s a signal. It’s a warning. It’s a sign of where we are heading. Only time will allow it to unfold. The typical naysayers can only be proven wrong with time and…

> sign of where we are heading

Where are we heading?

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#450

Post by shuckles »

verst wrote: post #429
costcofries wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hurts junior employees the most. Tenured employees have equity as a large part of their comp, they are invested in the stock price, not the few % annual bump.

Not really true for Microsoft. At Microsoft we generally do not get significant new stock grants or refresh grants, even on promotion no new stock is granted often. This may be different for principal engineers or certainly partner level folks - but senior engineers with more than 4 years of tenure will have essentially no significant stock to vest.

Are you describing American compensation? If so, how do they retain engineers after the cliff?
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