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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#681

Post by scarface74 »

bumby wrote: post #641
scarface74 wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets back to my other statement where people seem to ignore Jim Crow laws and the segregated south. How much more “polarized” can people be than literally being forced by law to do everything separately?

So you’re saying we are less polarized? How do you square that with Haidts research?

He completely ignored Jim Crow laws and segregation where one side wanted to be treated as equals and the other side wanted to keep them segregated ?

By definition, being forced to drink out of separate water fountains is putting people on the opposite side - ie opposite poles.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#682

Post by redhale »

Cheating is bad, full stop. These kinds of unethical people likely contribute to a toxic team culture, back-stabbing and acting in bad faith to get ahead.

But if you've designed your interview process in a way that can be easily beaten by in-the-moment googling, then you're getting the candidates you deserve. And since these people were promoted, then I guess the system worked.

Miss me with these companies/teams.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#683

Post by CamperBob2 »

fnimick wrote: post #632
belfalas wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly selecting for individuals who cheat might help the company navigate ethics/regulatory issues. I have seen many instances of people treating regulation as an annoying roadblock to work around, not something worth honoring.

That's something this community celebrates. Look at how much Uber and AirBNB are touted as success stories when really they were illegal enterprises allowing individuals to violate the law (taxi licenses, rental laws) for profit.

It's very easy to convince yourself that some laws are not worth respecting. (Ever drive 56 in a 55 zone?)

Taxi laws are an instance of almost 100% public corruption, unnecessary bureaucracy, and regulatory capture, but at the same time they would have been almost impossible to dislodge except through widespread disobedience. What happened with Uber and Lyft was for the best. The market spoke.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#684

Post by hirvi74 »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #278
hirvi74 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically how western medicine operates in the US to begin with.

to be fair - I also met doctors who appeared to be competent and afaict didn't take advantage of my situation.

Sure, plenty out there exist. However, it's not always the doctor but hospital admins that tighten the screws.

Doctors may care about treating patients, but hospitals only care about one thing -- money. Pressuring doctors into pursuing unnecessary treatments are one of many ways hospitals try to increase revenue.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#685

Post by Benjammer »

redhale wrote: post #682

Cheating is bad, full stop. These kinds of unethical people likely contribute to a toxic team culture, back-stabbing and acting in bad faith to get ahead. But if you've designed your interview process in a way that can be easily beaten by in-the-moment googling, then you're getting the candidates you deserve. And since these people were promoted, then I guess the system worked. Miss me with these companies/teams.

It's driven purely by jealousy and an intrinsic sense of "fairness" that isn't very logical when you step back and think for a second. I've met plenty of people like this. They aren't thinking about how it's weird to want a terrible team at a terrible company to have a perfectly fair hiring process, and also imply that _they_ should be hired for this awful job as well. It's entirely looking at the price tag and being jealous. In other words, typical Blind culture.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#686

Post by hirvi74 »

siftrics wrote: post #520
laratied wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true. What you are ascribing to personal gain is just protecting against personal loss. Ordering an extra test or an extra drug is mostly a doctor covering themselves from potential lawsuit.

You're delusional if you think physicians maliciously over-prescribing in the US is not a problem. People are tremendously impacted, for good or ill, when prescribed pain medications, ADHD medications, anti-depressants, etc. Many of these people are harmed. Many of the doctors who caused them harm simply do not care.

No kidding. The slightest issue with a medication, and every doctor I have seen starts foaming at the mouth, "I can prescribe X to help with that."

Then before you know it, you have to take a pill to take a pill. Then down the road, you have to take a pill to take a pill to take a pill.

I'm no medical Calvinist either, but I am not sure that polypharmacy should be the end goal if it can be avoided.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#687

Post by tristor »

wootland wrote: post #126
asimpletune wrote: post #115

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

I'd add d) when all of the gains are captured by execs and investors, if you don't do everything you can to maximize your return and minimize your input, you're being exploited. It's strange to me that anyone would care about people cheating at job interviews and not say CEO pay that's 1,000X the average employee. More power to those who can balance things in their favor against those who have everything to gain and…

> It's strange to me that anyone would care about people cheating at job interviews and not say CEO pay that's 1,000X the average employee.

When people cheat at the job interview and end up on my team or interacting with me but are not competent at the job, that directly and negatively impacts me and my work life, as well as my productivity. The fact the CEO makes more money than me does not directly impact me (although it does indirectly through larger society).

I like being part of a team that is high performance and competent and linked to other high performance and competent teams. Cheating makes this less likely and damages the quality of the work life and creates the need for more process that slows does the productivity and performance of the team in order to account for and hedge against incompetence.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#688

Post by slondr »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #549
rahimnathwani wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of 'on sites' were remote during the pandemic, and a lot of roles now are remote, so may not have an 'on site' at all.

Not even at the local branches ??

Many companies aren’t ginormous with branches everywhere.

Google Meet is cheaper than a flight & hotel room.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#689

Post by phendrenad2 »

moomoo11 wrote: post #492

Serious question: why do you care so much? Its just a job. You are drone #23423 who will be sacrificed at any moment for the actual shareholders of the company (ie. not you with your 200k stock bonus). They don't give a shit about you, and you shouldn't care so much when you have no equity. Get the money, enjoy YOUR life, and move on. If you really care so much, go start your own company and make 100x more money than…

Nice morality shaming. The truth is as humans we are capable of abstract thought, and wishing for a world where we don't have to choose between compromise our principles or being judged by society, even sometimes friends & family, as a "loser".

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#690

Post by mannykannot »

somsak2 wrote: post #653
boondoggle16 wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true in a low-trust society. In a high-trust society, it's absolutely on the presenter to make their claims not only true, but realistically true, and acceptable by the average person. When people defect from that norm, they are shamed, or worse.

Aren't we talking about an environment where there are rampant cheaters? My perception was that this is by definition a low-trust company. Of course, it is always going to be easier to remove yourself from that situation and go to a company that has more rigorous interviews that would catch cheating in the first place.

The corollary of your argument is that hiring rampant cheaters produces (by definition, as you say) a low-trust company. Putting aside everything else, low-trust organizations are intrinsically dysfunctional (though it may take a while for the consequences to play out.) In them, asking more questions will not get you useful information, and you had better watch your back.

See, for example, the Third Reich, the Soviet Union, Hoxha's Albania, the Taliban's Afghanistan...

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