Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#221

Post by dkarras » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

dig1 wrote: post #10

Yet CEO's bonus in 2022 was 20x bigger than his salary. I don't think it will be less this year either; with all-time high stock price and these "cost cuts", he will be wholesomely rewarded.

I don't get the obsession with CEO salaries. Envy is not a productive way of thinking about economics. In a huge company, distribute the CEO compensation to employees and it will be peanuts (in microsoft's case, it is something like $200 per employee - not per month or anything, that is the total). I don't get it. If all the CEOs in the world were forced to make $0, it will not meaningfully change the amount of money in workers' pockets. It is the wrong tree to bark at.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#222

Post by listenallyall » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

Just yesterday an HN post stated "Employers have the upper hand" and every comment called it out as being wrong, bullshit, incorrect, whatever. I guess it is possible that a ton of Microsoft employees will leave the company based upon this declaration, but I doubt it. I think yesterday's article was way more accurate than people want to admit.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/07/employees-e...

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#223

Post by listenallyall » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

csa wrote: post #163

fzeroracer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is it a 'natural reversion' when even high performing employees are now effectively taking a massive pay cut due to the salary freeze and inflation?

> high performing employees are now effectively taking a massive pay cut due to the salary freeze and inflation? If any “high-performing employee” feels like they are taking a “massive pay cut” merely due to inflation, then something is wrong. Either they were grossly underpaid to begin with (change jobs, it can be done if you’re that good and that low paid), they aren’t actually that good (so total comp package, inc…

Inflation impacts big-ticket items as well... home prices, college tuition, VIP Disney tours, backyard pool builders, etc

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#224

Post by listenallyall » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #184

oh_sigh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I don't mean anyone willing to take the job, I mean anyone the board might reasonably select who has a good chance of success. Surely those people are out there. In that same time frame that Sundar was CEO and GOOG stock is up 240%, META is up 160%, NFLX is up 220%, AMZN is up 325%, AAPL is up 500%, and MSFT is up 600%. Surely these giant tech companies didn't all get lucky and get the only 5 people who could g…

Shareholders want to avoid CEOs who will give them the returns of IBM, Cisco, VMWare, HP, or Groupon. It's not about the idea that only these specific 5 people could have generated those returns. But when they are generating those returns, there's ample support from the board and shareholders to pay them handsomely to generate returns like the list of companies you gave and not the list that I gave here.

A zero-raise policy, if its reasonably long-term, is likely to leave you stuck with the type of employees at IBM and the others. Maybe not the CEO but the rest.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#225

Post by nly » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:51 PM UTC

My employer did this also (pay review was in March)...at a time of 10% inflation (I'm in the UK) and soaring mortgage costs.

Lots of people are leaving as a result..jobs are still easy ish to come by and those jumping ship are still seeing gains.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#226

Post by Galacta7 » Wed, May 10, 2023, 10:57 PM UTC

datarecipes wrote: post #190

runamok wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artificial at least. :-)

Artificial Institutions

I think they prefer the term Synthetic Persons.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#227

Post by BulgarianIdiot » Wed, May 10, 2023, 11:12 PM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #217

mikestew wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock grants, not options. Pedantry aside, those grants are being cut, too.

It’s actually not that pedantic, it’s like calling JavaScript “Java”. For stock options to be profitable the stock has go up. Stock grants are simply cash in a currency that may be more or less valuable than originally granted.

Employees get both options and grants, depending on their position and so on. And stock does go up. It's Microsoft. Otherwise you can... just not use the option. The purpose is to encourage employees to help the company and raise the stock. In theory at least.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#228

Post by Tommstein » Wed, May 10, 2023, 11:16 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #176

bagacrap wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a percentage of the SP500, it's never been higher. This is important because (a) economic performance is relative (b) the most likely thing (or at least the most advisable thing) for anyone who receives MSFT RSUs is to immediately sell them and use the proceeds to buy more diversified investments.

The reason people became rich off of MSFT is because they didn't diversify by selling their winner.

It can only go up forever!

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#229

Post by Infinitesimus » Wed, May 10, 2023, 11:21 PM UTC

ladberg wrote: post #220

alephnerd wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total number of PropTrading engineers in the US is most definitely in the low to mid thousands at most. Most PropTrading firms are tiny from a headcount perspective For example, Citadel has around 600-700 engineers globally and Jane Street only has around 400-500 globally. Both of these firms are actual behemoths headcount wise, and most other trading firms tend to be way smaller (total headcount in the high doub…

FWIW I switched from FAANG to trading last year and got a pretty big comp increase. I was entertaining an offer from another FAANG at the same time and it was still nothing compared to my offers in trading.

Wanna share some ballpark numbers? It'll bolster your statement a bit and grounds the claim from others with similar experiences

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#230

Post by pb7 » Wed, May 10, 2023, 11:25 PM UTC

BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #227

pb7 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually not that pedantic, it’s like calling JavaScript “Java”. For stock options to be profitable the stock has go up. Stock grants are simply cash in a currency that may be more or less valuable than originally granted.

Employees get both options and grants, depending on their position and so on. And stock does go up. It's Microsoft. Otherwise you can... just not use the option. The purpose is to encourage employees to help the company and raise the stock. In theory at least.

Thanks for explaining it but I know how it works better than most here, hence the comment.

If you get $100K in stock options at a certain price and the price doubles, you make $100K. If it stays the same, you make nothing. If you leave, you have a certain period of time to exercise or you lose your options.

If you get $100K in stock and the prices doubles you make $200K. If it stays the same, you make $100K. If you leave the day it vests, you keep it.

They’re not at all similar except in the fact that they’re securities. Using them interchangeably is a great sign to ignore any financial commentary from that person. I’m only here because I see this mistake in every single thread that has anything to do with compensation. Engineers need to get financial education.