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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#51

Post by WalterBright »

nforgerit wrote: post #43
pianoben wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret is, we've always been plumbers . It's not a terrible comparison in some ways - plumbers are highly-skilled, scarce, and command high prices for their services. Nobody mistakes them for Capital, especially not plumbers themselves. Engineers seem to have gotten the wrong idea about themselves lately.

Gosh I like this comment so much. This is exactly how I felt and saw ourselves whilst sitting in hipster startup offices getting way too much money compared to the rest of society. That said, tech people in general publicly don't get enough respect or disrespect for their work.

> getting way too much money compared to the rest of society

A good engineer can make a great deal of money for the company, far more than a plumber ever could.

I.e. an engineer has leverage.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#52

Post by status_quo69 »

skrebbel wrote: post #33
Apreche wrote: post #8

Correct headline: Microsoft cuts salaries for 2023. Even in a good economy inflation and cost of living increases are a thing.

I never understood the idea that salaries should be expected to always be corrected for inflation, and that not doing so is somehow secretly a "salary cut". Salaries are driven by supply and demand, and individual companies (maybe not Microsoft though) can generally only afford to raise them by a given amount. If that amount is less than inflation then that's that, right? Most companies (again, maybe not Microsoft th…

It's not secretly a salary cut, it's an explicit salary cut relative to the cost of living and everything else. After all, your money is worth less now than it was a year ago if there's no cost of living increase? I'm sure the initial circumstances of salary negotiations for a position took into account current economic factors. I'm much less likely to want to stick around at a company that cannot compete with living expenses with a general 2% increase YoY. That screams stiff/cheap or that the company is on the cusp of folding.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#53

Post by mc32 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #46
mc32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not better/preferable to freeze salaries than to cut more staff? From a morale PoV, from a human PoV, except maybe not from an individual PoV, overall.

It might be better if you didn't over hire. I can't speak for MSFT. But a lot of tech companies definitely hired to banana town. Cutting would be better than freezing salaries.

Hiring gives someone experience they sought and presumably would not have had (else they might have kept put). So overhiring in some light does look bad, on the other hand it gives some people the necessary experience for their next step in their carrers.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#54

Post by norir »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #34
strangattractor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the people that gain the most income from stock decide to limit the income of those who don't. So their salaries effectively increase.

[flagged]

What is with this blatant pro capitalist bulls... almost everywhere for the last two centuries

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#56

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

boredumb wrote: post #32

HN comments about profits, CEOs, share holders and executives are increasingly resembling twitter takes.

Developers increasingly see those factions as being opposed to them, so you're seeing that in aggregate sentiment. You can view this dispassionately as a kind of empirical signal.

Squeezing people doesn't make them like you. Who knew.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#57

Post by TideAd »

skrebbel wrote: post #33
Apreche wrote: post #8

Correct headline: Microsoft cuts salaries for 2023. Even in a good economy inflation and cost of living increases are a thing.

I never understood the idea that salaries should be expected to always be corrected for inflation, and that not doing so is somehow secretly a "salary cut". Salaries are driven by supply and demand, and individual companies (maybe not Microsoft though) can generally only afford to raise them by a given amount. If that amount is less than inflation then that's that, right? Most companies (again, maybe not Microsoft th…

Company executives all understand that not adjusting for inflation is a salary cut though. When they make this move that's what they're trying to do.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#58

Post by blahyawnblah »

vore wrote: post #45
heywhatupboys wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically. Profiters of stocks are evil, and take advantage of the poor developers!! Why don't you own stock then, it's public? ANGER

Because executives get issued an order of magnitude more stock than you could ever reasonably buy?

That doesn't prevent you from trading the stock and making (or losing) money.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#59

Post by darepublic »

csa wrote: post #42
pydry wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much illegal back channel coordination there is going on between the big tech companies on this.

It doesn’t take illegal back channel coordination to play follow the leader. All it takes is one major company to pull the trigger, then the rest will follow. The hiring market during covid was wonky in a way that favored applicants, and a lot of folks who got hired were under-qualified, overpaid, or both. This is just a natural reversion to a more balanced state across the industry.

Same thing with the housing market. Emergent behavior based on everyone doing what is best for themselves

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#60

Post by WalterBright »

Someone1234 wrote: post #12

Executives get most of their compensation from non-salary (stock grants). Are they sharing the pain (e.g. lower grants)?

In the 90's the Seattle Times estimated that 10,000 millionaires (excluding the value of their homes) live in Seattle that made their fortunes from merely being an employee of Microsoft.
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