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Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

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Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#101

Post by simonw »

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #100
simonw wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes" That may be true at junior levels, but as you become more senior your output is judged on a whole bunch of other things: - Do you elevate the rest of your team? Through mentoring, teaching, documentation etc. - Do you participate productively in higher level strategic planning? Helping the company decide what to build next for exampl…

Did you actually think I did not know all of what you put?

Yes, because you said "The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes".

You emphasized only!

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#102

Post by CalRobert »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #97
CalRobert wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been much better at getting paid well since I started... creatively reframing my comp.

I hear you. I wasn't suggesting that lying never pays off in some way. And I concede that a policy of honesty might only make sense in some world views / ethical positions.

I don't tell my parents how much I make. I'm definitely not telling some random recruiter.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#103

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

simonw wrote: post #101
dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually think I did not know all of what you put?

Yes, because you said "The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes". You emphasized only!

Agreed, I did not word it perfectly. But if you see the larger context the developer thinks that he has been picked on for not using Firefox, I believe they explicitly told him so. There could actually be other reasons, like you stated. If he was lacking in other areas they really should tell him that. My point here is that most of us end up judging each other very harshly. (just like you judged that I was pretty clueless on the larger context, because I did not articulate something imperfectly). Collectively speaking we developers are our own worst enemies.

Also just a comment on your original comment, where you essentially stated that inter-personal skills are also important. In toxic work environments often individual contributors are dumped with so much of work, that if they even ever attempted to help/interact with someone else they would fall behind on their own work. And then they are held task for not doing their work. I have seen this multiple times pan out. Remember you are dealing with unreasonable people, and they will get you in the end no matter how good you are, if they do not like you for some reason ( for example you are a different ethnicity, and you don't speak their language, which may not be English)

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#104

Post by jillesvangurp »

tamarind8 wrote: post #82
jillesvangurp wrote: post #78

Well, that's your interpretation of what they told you. Reading between the lines there might have been a bit more going on. They told you you don't know how to use your tools. In other words that you were not being professional. Not that you are not allowed to use other tools. There's a subtle difference. You might think you know best (can't judge that) but your failure is actually convincing others of those amazing…

> Anyway, you wouldn't be the first opinionated junior developer that gets a reality check this way. hahajahha!!! This guy just called me a junior dev. I guess that is possible. To work 17 years in the same profession, being payed, mostly as a temp contractor, having to prove your chops over and over again every year or so, but still somehow never learning anything. Thanks bro. From today on, I'll consider myself a j…

You are making my point for me.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#105

Post by CoastalCoder »

CalRobert wrote: post #102
CoastalCoder wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. I wasn't suggesting that lying never pays off in some way. And I concede that a policy of honesty might only make sense in some world views / ethical positions.

I don't tell my parents how much I make. I'm definitely not telling some random recruiter.

> I don't tell my parents how much I make. I'm definitely not telling some random recruiter.

FWIW, there are ways to not reveal that info, but also not lie.

For example, if a recruiter / employer starts fishing for my current salary, I just say "I'm not going to talk about that, but ...", followed by some carefully worded signal about my general salary expectations.

If lying in this context doesn't bother you in the slightest, then maybe you won't see value in this approach.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#106

Post by thomaslevesque »

> means that I'll most likely be terrible at cross-browser testing

"likely"? Who fires someone because they're "likely" bad at something? That's really a bullshit reason to fire someone. If anything, using Firefox makes you better at cross-browser testing, because most other people use Chrome. They needed to let you go for reasons they couldn't tell you, so they were just looking for an excuse.

(And Firefox is awesome, btw. It's been my default browser almost since the beginning. I tried switching to Chrome several times, but every time I come back to FF.)

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#107

Post by Toutouxc »

tamarind8 wrote: post #67
Toutouxc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I don't do something about this, they will do it to someone else. Name and shame then? Don’t know how well this goes with the suing that everyone’s proposing though.

Have I named anyone here? Have I shamed anyone here? All I have said, is I'm going to look into my rights as an employee, and question whether I was treated fairly. Why do you have a problem with that?

You misunderstood my post, that was also a proposal. Like “maybe you should name and shame then?”.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#109

Post by mock-possum »

stefanos82 wrote: post #59
jasonkester wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and you consider this a healthy behavior from any working environment? No. Of course not. But there's a difference between the world we want to exist and the world we live in. And that world is full of people who behave like your manager and the ones I've seen that led to my observations here. The sad truth is that you need to be able to read situations like this and adapt to them. > If you were a boss, at what…

Rule #1: Identify the environment you are in. You never EVER do any ticket closing or commenting on your very first day. Others might interpret this as a threat: e.g. who is this who came here to show-off, that thinks he knows more than us? Good luck after this type of behavior; you are doomed by your own colleagues, let alone the management. Rule #2: Be observant, at all levels. See how each and everyone behaves; wh…

> Rule #1: Identify the environment you are in.

> You never EVER do any ticket closing or commenting on your very first day. Others might interpret this as a threat: e.g. who is this who came here to show-off, that thinks he knows more than us?

holy shit my man... you have worked in some dire situations. Last time I hired a junior dev that finished a bunch of stuff in his first couple days I made sure everybody knew what a good job he was doing, how proud we were of him and how lucky we were to have him there. Your coworkers are supposed to be your allies, not a threat.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#110

Post by zamnos »

tamarind8 wrote: post #89
zamnos wrote: post #65

Based on what you've told us here , that's a bit weird. Thing is, we only have half the story. We don't know what else happened in the meeting you were terminated, or got said or happened in the 3 weeks, we don't know what you did and didn't ask your mentor, we don't know how many roadblocks you hit because you're using Firefox and VS Code, we weren't there for the conversation there was about you using Chrome and Vi…

> Thing is, we only have half the story. Yes. And what is wrong with that? If this was a court of law, then not only would you have to hear both sides, you would also have to determine which side is true. When I asked for advice, part of that request was to put yourself in my shoes, then give me some advice. Not to decide who is legally and ultimately right or wrong. That is not what I asked. I told my story, FROM MY…

Yikes.

In case you were wondering why you were let go, it's clear from your response here that it was not about Firefox and VS code and that was just an excuse.

Your point of view isn't enough. If it were, you wouldn't be asking for help outside of your point of view. (ie, other people). That's why you're asking for help from outside your point of view.

The other half of the story is necessary to figure out what happened. If you only give your half of the story, you just want people to agree with you, uncritically. You're looking for a bunch of yes men who will agree with you no matter what you say or do. It's very nice, and comforting, and we all need that sometimes. But it doesn't challenge us or push us to do better. If all you want is a hug, there are lots of warm fuzzy places on the Internet. I like https://eyebleach.me/.

My advice, which may fall on deaf ears, but I'll give it anyway, since it was asked for, originally, is to work with a therapist and work with them on how to put your best foot forwards when working with other people, and maybe some anger issues. I'm saying this earnestly and I'm not making fun of you. There are an unlimited number of things a person can do that are career limiting views, don't let your "personality" be one of them.

Or do, I'm not the one who got fired for "using Firefox". But I wasn't there, maybe it really was about Firefox.

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