Live data from Hacker News

My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

teamblind.com

551–560 of 748 posts

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#551

Serious question: why do you care so much? Its just a job. You are drone #23423 who will be sacrificed at any moment for the actual shareholders of the company (ie. not you with your 200k stock bonus). They don't give a shit about you, and you shouldn't care so much when you have no equity. Get the money, enjoy YOUR life, and move on. If you really care so much, go start your own company and make 100x more money than…

I'm not swayed by cat-is-out-of-the-bag arguments. Bad things can still be bad even while lots of people do the bad thing.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#553
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I let any of my interviewees know that it is ok to use google, I just want to know what they searched for. I'm not running a trivia contest, so if they forgot the name of something or need a little refresh, that's fine.

I expect my interviewees to use Google and am disappointed if they don't. It's more important to me that they know how to find the right answer than it is that they just know it off the top of their head. 90% of their time is going to be spent figuring out how to solve all the known-unknowns they're going to come across.

As long as you tell them they can, that seems great. I think it's normal for people being interviewed to assume they can't use any outside assistance.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#554
Well... yeah!

When I was in undergrad [1] there was a student whose average after first year was a D, ie he had to repeat first year of engineering.

Instead, he got into the ECE program (our university has first year engineering as a common year) that has a B+ entrance requirement. Only about 10-15% of students had >B+.

He failed out of ECE with another D average. The university rules were clear. Two straight D averages and you are kicked out of Eng. (or the school?).

Instead he was put into the nuclear program, an unpopular program with only a C requirement. That's where I dealt with him (I chose nuke despite my B+/A- average. Big mistake).

There he kept a C minus average largely from cheating but also thanks to professor largesse.

When he graduated he got a coveted job at the state controlled energy company at one of their nuclear sites. Typical candidates needed a B+ to get in if they were a disadvantaged group. White men like our protagonist needed a solid A.

His average? A C

His secret? Why so much largesse from the professors? His dad was the vice president of said government company. He went on to be president and the best paid public employee. Most people in tech in SV dont make the money this man was making.

I used to hate this kid. In private he was one of the most racist, misogynist people I've ever met. He gladly told anti-Semitic holocaust jokes. He'd bully anyone weaker than he, and cajole and act saintly to anyone above him.

Im past my anger now. Because, in fairness, he is where he belongs. He was quickly promoted to a position where his technical incompetence could not harm the public and now enjoys a management position. He's too politically savvy in too woke an environment to harm women, (or Jews) but his ability to navigate and exploit corruption, frankly, benefits the public corporation. Maybe even the public.

[1] in a progressive northern country where nothing bad is supposed to happen

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#555
post #368

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

> Like, there was a time where this kind of personality type would just go get an MBA One nuance that may help explain how the change happened is how the status of CS has changed in the last 20 years. Maybe its just my age bias, but there seems to be a perceptible change of how CS majors are viewed by society and that changes the type of people attracted to that curriculum. It used to be that CS and engineering major…

If you want people to take on jobs purely for non-socioeconomic reasons then you might need to fix the underlying socioeconomic problems. (e.g. cost of housing)

I don't see any real movement from older generations to do anything about that. They just keep complaining about the youth chasing money instead of some "passion." (Which ignores that the material conditions have completely changed in the last 20 years)

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#556
post #348
post #27

I've done a lot of screening interviews and cheating does happen. Some of my favorites: * developer attempts to pass something off as video lag, as he attempts to lip sync someone else's answer. * developer had printed all the 'common' answers on the wall behind his computer, and would look up to them for reference as we were talking. Then the tape came off and covered him in a a paper stack overflow. * the glorious…

>interviewed one person and had a different one show up I'm always amazed at the extent people go to to cheat. It gets to the point that you're putting in more effort than you would have to be successful without cheating. I sometimes feel some people simply enjoy cheating too much. Its not about accomplishing a goal by any means necessary, its something about doing something wrong that certain people seem to enjoy.

In the pandemic when hiring was remote this was very prevalent in my country.

This became kind of a business where a person sells his services to help you cheat by appearing instead of you in the video interview and also helps you with the work after you got the job.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about “trust” receding in society. The majority didn’t “trust” the minority enough to even allow them to be a part of society. It’s only a different issue to you because your parents can wax poetically about the “good old days”

Are you implying trying to increase societal trust would increase racism? You aren't making an obvious point. Trust and racism are inverses?

I’m not implying anything. I’m stating very explicitly that people who say trust is lower now than some mythical time in the past is the same time period when the US had laws explicitly targeting “others” because they didn’t trust Black people (Jim Crow laws, laws against miscegenation, redlining), Japanese (internment camps), etc.

The only people who long for “the good old days” when “trust” was high are those who benefited themselves or whose parents benefited from systematic and de jure discrimination.

The good old days when you could live off of one income came about because Europe was recovering from a war and we dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think any insurance company would have a lifelong suicide exclusion if they could. I’m pretty sure they are legally obligated to pay after two years, as it’s be too easy for nearly any insurance company to claim most deaths were possibly a suicide. The main point being that you can’t pay the mortgage on your house, which may be the sole reason you got life insurance, if the benefits aren’t being paid out. Also, the…

The problem for the industry with the "no questions asked" plans is the only people who sign up for them are the ones who have no other option, which makes them more expensive, which makes the only people who sign up for them ... etc etc etc.

Yes. There’s a few factors:

- higher premiums for everyone because the pool of applicants aren’t that healthy

- the super sick people simply die in the first two years

- the semi sick people can hang on for years, but weak health may me limited ability to pay because of limited employment prospects

- the not sick people will find better prices or simply realize the insurance is overpriced and cancel it

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. It's not "right" or "wrong" - it's just a decision. There may be other choices and other decisions but to paint this one as flat wrong seems, well, wrong. > They may not have found the very best person for the job The vast majority of job searches do not have this as a goal…

Best person for the job given relevant constraints, obviously. When those are "relatively quickly" and "for the price we want to pay", you still want the very best person for the job.

> you still want the very best person for the job.

No you don't! Or else you'd never hire anybody because how can you be sure anyone is the best person for the job?

You want to hire the person in front of you who is good enough to be likely enough to be able to do the job.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#560

I'm probably going to get roasted for saying this, but this is completely unsurprising to me. When I was in college, folks from India and other low trust societies would mercilessly cheat on their projects and exams, blatantly helping one another on individual works, and the college knew about it and didn't care. When I had brought this up at one point, I was told by a professor that it was a cultural difference that…

Not endorsing cheating, but in the real world, everyone cheats. Somehow looking up answers in exams is considered cheating, but hiring your buddies (which is very prevalent in tech) for positions they aren’t the best candidates for is not. Everyone cheats, but somehow calling specific societies as low trust while ignoring similar behavior in others is not fair.

It’s the same philosophy of “it’s not bribing it’s lobbying.”

Post reply on HN