Earlier quoted context omitted.
IQ scores are highly correlated with actual success, undeniably so. Maybe IQ doesn't exactly track "intelligence", or whatever that is, but it is certainly tracking something that is correlated to success.
Sure, but is that causal? For example, maybe there's some other factor (like SES) that's driving both. And switching to IQ tests doesn't really solve the problem, as your avenues for cheating on that are identical to LC. You could probably screen candidates based on the question "Did any of your parents go to college? And if so, did they study or work in a STEM field?" and be roughly as predictable. (This is terrible…
My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#532Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they also need to fix their process to actually test skills. If we're being honest, LC style interviews aren't even about testing skills, it's trying to proxy for testing raw intelligence (or at least the ability to remember and regurgitate lots of facts). If companies could just IQ test people and hire by IQ, there'd be a lot less weirdness in interviews, but that's illegal (and probably rightly so).
If a LC interview effectively serves as a proxy for an IQ test, then I think the courts might treat it the same as a literal IQ test. I wonder if we will see lawsuits testing this hypothesis.
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#534Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Look at it from the point of view of the hiring company now, not the interviewer. They got a person who was good enough (based on the merits of their actual work, not interview pe…
> However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. It's not "right" or "wrong" - it's just a decision. There may be other choices and other decisions but to paint this one as flat wrong seems, well, wrong. > They may not have found the very best person for the job The vast majority of job searches do not have this as a goal…
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#535Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…
It seems like you are implying that a person who gets an MBA is the type of person who would cheat on a test. This fits with a ubiquitous contempt for MBAs and also project managers that comes up a lot on this site. There is a lot of room for criticism of business schools and middle managers in tech. But if you really think of people like that as more likely to be dishonest you are being irrational.
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
I relate heavily to the spirit of your comments. Wouldn't we all be better off if we lived in a society that is built on trust and honesty. However, I think you're being a little naive if you think the days of "yesteryear" were somehow different in man's capacity and willingness to do what he needs to do to survive. I mean in every facet of life we're basically awash in never before seen capacity to benefit from dish…
>what he needs to do to survive Robbing a loaf of bread so your children can eat is very different from cheating on a test/interview for a job with a kingly salary. One is doing what one needs to do to survive, and morally justifiable. The other is pathetic and craven.
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#537I've done a lot of screening interviews and cheating does happen. Some of my favorites: * developer attempts to pass something off as video lag, as he attempts to lip sync someone else's answer. * developer had printed all the 'common' answers on the wall behind his computer, and would look up to them for reference as we were talking. Then the tape came off and covered him in a a paper stack overflow. * the glorious…
I don't understand how #2 and #3 would be considered cheating? If they can still answer the question and show evidence that they understand it, what's wrong with reference materials and googling?
Context matters. If you're looking to see "have you really done security stuff?" by mentioning some OWASP Top 10 vulns and asking for a quick description, for somebody that has indeed done any security at all that will be trivially easy and anybody else will need to google it. Can they skim google and get you an intelligeable answer? Maybe but that's not what you're looking for, the question itself is a proxy for something else.
For most of my interviews I tell folk up front to google whatever they need to. But at the very very earliest stage of the interview loop we do a quick "programmer is a big field, what kind are you?" round so we know how to place people and the questions we use for it are all trivially easy for somebody even remotely familiar with the fields we're looking at and also trivially googleable for anybody else. The goal with that piece isn't to challenge people it's just to round their skillset to the nearest role that we have. I've caught people retyping code, pretending to be inventing it, from what's clearly the first article they found when they googled the keywords. It was never intended to be a hard problem, just something to quickly tell an infrastructure from a frontend engineer. It was more or less bitwise identical to the article they were retyping from and they couldn't explain the code or modify it. That doesn't even accomplish what they want, even if it worked we'd then go on to interview them for a job they couldn't do.
Again you can argue about whether that's a good practise or not but it's still not licence to simply cheat on it. You're conflating these and and I think it's not the right thing to do.
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not OP, but to be clear, "low trust society" has a specific sociological meaning relating to interpersonal trust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_trust_and_low_trust_socie... It doesn't mean that individuals from that society are less trustworthy.
I find it odd this article doesn't provide any examples of low and high trust societies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they also need to fix their process to actually test skills. If we're being honest, LC style interviews aren't even about testing skills, it's trying to proxy for testing raw intelligence (or at least the ability to remember and regurgitate lots of facts). If companies could just IQ test people and hire by IQ, there'd be a lot less weirdness in interviews, but that's illegal (and probably rightly so).
https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-... IQ is largely a pseudoscientific swindle by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)
#540This sounds like a business idea to me. Rent small rooms in highly populated areas, make sure cell phone signals are blocked, let interviewed do their virtual interviews in this room on a provided computer. Sell it as "certified interview" to big tech.