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‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

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Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#91

Post by local_crmdgeon »

moneywoes wrote: post #76
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Are there any pertinent distinctions between Mexico and Columbia?

Colombia is cheaper, arguably better run, significantly safer, and (to the extent that it matters) speaks Spanish similar to "the King's English" instead of something more dialectal.

Big fan of Colombia. They're in the middle of a real boom.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#92

Post by projectazorian »

mikeryan wrote: post #34
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

> The one big loophole is to basically hire an agency in MX and pay a premium for devs but don’t take on any of the labor risk.

Less labor risk also means you miss out on the upside, though. If you end up with someone really good, they could be rotated to another client at any time and you don’t have many levers you can pull to retain them.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#93

Post by Apocryphon »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #83
josu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 32 US cities, including Huston TX, with a higher homicide rate than Mexico City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_homicide_rat... Foreigners getting kidnapped is very uncommon. It happens from time to time, although it makes it to the news and they do try to find the kidnappers. School shootings are extremely rare.

Why so many red flags on the State Department website then? Are you saying they're just wrong? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/...

There are six states with red flags, the rest are cautionary advisories.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#94

Post by Apocryphon »

aeyes wrote: post #18
ps_on_brazil wrote: post #5

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

I'm a senior engineer and I moved to Latam (on my own, not for work). Unless you are prepared to give up a lot I don't see why anyone would consider this. What's the incentive? Unless you are looking for an adventure there is no reason to give up your stable standard of living. Also take into consideration that all of Latam, even Mexico and Chile which are the most developed countries are much more dangerous. Educati…

What about Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay? Seems like a broad brush to paint an entire continent and a half.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#95

Post by red-iron-pine »

TexanFeller wrote: post #2

This will get big pretty soon. It's been a trend for a while, my last few jobs we've had LATAM contractors. No time zone issues like with overseas and much less of a language and cultural barrier, like basically nonexistent compared to India. Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US, but they will learn and grow as more work moves there.

Same. Been seeing a lot of stuff operating out of Mexico City, and to a lesser extent, Greater Baja California for West Coast timezones. Did several projects with Mexican PMs but Chilean or Uruguayan support, esp. out of the Zona America in Uruguay.

On top of all of the reasons mentioned, Mexico is also attractive due to the NAFTA TN Visa, which makes it fairly easy to bring a resource across the border. Basically just need a valid job offer, enough experience and qualifications to check the box, and a fairly trivial application fee. No H1B nonsense, and quick turnaround.

I'd also disagree with the low skill of LATAM devs, I found they were generally pretty good compared to India or PI. If we had an SAP expert in MX we could feel pretty confident they'd know their stuff, while Tata or Cognizant would scrounge up anyone who could spell SAP and try to convince us they were qualified.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#96

Post by local_crmdgeon »

heyjamesknight wrote: post #54
TexanFeller wrote: post #2

This will get big pretty soon. It's been a trend for a while, my last few jobs we've had LATAM contractors. No time zone issues like with overseas and much less of a language and cultural barrier, like basically nonexistent compared to India. Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US, but they will learn and grow as more work moves there.

It's pretty big now. Uruguay's entire tech labor pool has been consumed by nearshoring agencies. Competition in Argentina and Colombia is catching up. Disagree on skill level. The average US dev is pretty bad. Most of us on HN just have the privilege of working at 1% companies with 1% developers. Those same people exist in LATAM, they're just 1% of the population there too!

Yes yes yes. This also is why devs in places like India working at body shops like TCS aren't great - MS etc have sucked up all the best talent.

Worked with the Office team in ... Bengaluru? Fantastic engineers.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#97

Post by red-iron-pine »

projectazorian wrote: post #89
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a trade off: countries that are hard to fire are also hard to hire. So your life is great in Europe once you secured employment, but employers are extra careful and very conservative in hiring.

I think most European countries still allow for probationary periods; if I recall correctly they can stretch into years in some cases. Surely 6 months is enough to figure out whether or not someone will be a dud. Maybe you won’t know their full potential at that point but you should have a good idea of whether or not they meet minimum standards.

Many also allow for casual or part-time gigs with less protections, which ends up with tons of almost-full-time workers putting in the time to prove they're worthy of being bumped to full-time.

Not much different to the contracting world in IT, really.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#98

Post by local_crmdgeon »

foobarian wrote: post #36
huevosabio wrote: post #33

I can speak for Mexico. We have so much going for it. 1. A robust manufacturing economy (unlike the rest of LATAM) right on the border with the #1 consumer. 2. A culture that is easy to digest for Americans and Europeans alike. 3. People that are welcoming of foreigners, and used to them thanks to decades of tourism. 4. A relatively educated and increasingly educated population. 5. A very comprehensive free trade agr…

What is the situation with cartels? I like the idea of Mexico but tbf I'm terrified of even visiting for tourism because of the shooting/kidnapping stories. For example for the '24 eclipse I'm just sticking to Texas

Much like the USA, violence is restricted geographically. I would not hang out in rural areas near the border. I would absolutely hang out in CDMX or Yucatan.

Yucatan has a lower murder rate than most EU countries.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#99

Post by red-iron-pine »

moneywoes wrote: post #76
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Are there any pertinent distinctions between Mexico and Columbia?

Arguably the big one is the NAFTA TN Visa, which makes it easy to get Mexican help into the US. No H1B needed.

Lotta business, esp. manufacturing, in Mexico as well; they've recently overtaken China and Canada as the US' number one trading partner.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#100

Post by stuff4ben »

ps_on_brazil wrote: post #5

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

My goal is to transition to Costa Rica the closer I get to retirement. I would still love to work there as well, but I'm dreaming of a part-time consultancy I can run from my beach house off of one the coasts.
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