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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#231

Post by FrustratedMonky »

Or, is it just another version of Fake it Till You Make it.

Lot of programmers that can pass the interview questions might not survive a large organization, and vice versa, they can't pass but would be good at surviving.

Generally the larger the organization, the less 'individual performance'/'merit' is a factor, and it becomes more about being 'personable'. Technical skills decline in importance.

Of course, there is inertia. Some of these big organizations, that have lost the ability to 'create' highly complex applications, are riding on their size and inertia and tend towards eventual collapse. Not an iron rule, I've been surprised that it is Microsoft that seems to be able to re-invent and keep high tech skills focused on actual tech.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#232

Post by clnq »

euix wrote: post #197
clnq wrote: post #59

We all know that interviews can focus on knowledge not applicable to the job, leading to candidates excelling in interviews but failing at their job, or vice versa. I don't hold a firm ethical view on whether this justifies cheating in interviews. However, as noted on Blind, people do succeed in their roles after cheating. Some could even make the argument that those who deliver business value fulfil the primary expe…

[flagged]

Somehow I've not yet heard of FAGMAN. Very humorous, just like the idea that they hold everyone to the same bar!

But to speak seriously for a moment, some will do it with exceptional candidates. Probably not FAANG, the attitude and level of competition is different there.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#233

Post by electrondood »

knicholes wrote: post #129

If one considers Kant's categorical imperative, "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law," then also considers how they'd feel if they were go to visit a doctor who had cheated or is cheating, one certainly must draw the conclusion that cheating is indeed immoral and undesirable.

Unexpected Kant, and relevant. Nice!

"Would you go to a surgeon who cheated their way through medical school?"

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#234

Post by scaramanga »

ryandrake wrote: post #222
asimpletune wrote: post #115

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

I read these comments not as a defense of cheating, but as resignation that "This is just how the world is." Your view is right at home in a Star Trek The Next Generation world where everyone's needs are met and people act ethically, with good intentions and are in return treated fairly. A civilized, meritocratic world that doesn't exist. Like it or not, we live in a zero-sum dog-eat-dog world that pits neighbors aga…

The only thing stopping me doing that is the observation that these people don't seem to be very happy. Which makes sense, they have to live their life being that person.

Play the politics to get the things you need, by all means. But if life is a jungle then you're better off with a machete and your own skills (which can never be taken away from you) than a heavy bag of looted gold and a head full of fantasies about why you rightly own it.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#235

Post by michaelteter »

Interviews are indeed broken and largely pointless. For so many reasons, interviews often have no real relationship to the work or skills required. It's no surprise that interview cheaters can still be successful at roles. Of course it's also possible that they aren't really accomplishing much at work due to any other number of company failures.

I refuse to do rounds of interviews any more. I will have the initial recruiter call and then one solo or team online call to talk, but no tests and no projects. I've burned far too many hours on this in the past; and when I get the role, I walk in and find they actually need about 1/10th of my skills and mental capacity.

Put the candidate on a 1-month trial contract. If that goes well, then extend the contract or convert it to employment.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#236

Post by jagtstronaut »

timthelion wrote: post #215
scarface74 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because Americans never cheat to get ahead and we are all morally superior…

Having grown up in America and moved to Czechia for college I have to say that I was absolutely shocked by the level of cheating both by Czechs as well as those from "farther east" like Ukraine and Russia. Just brazen obvious sheeting like taking notes into exams and hiding them. Cooperating during exams. Even collaboration to distract the teacher during exams. When I was at college in the US getting caught cheating…

I'm gonna have to go with scarface on this one. While your statements could very well be true, it is dangerous to make cultural generalizations without the data to back it.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#237

Post by AbrahamParangi »

psychphysic wrote: post #136
knicholes wrote: post #129

If one considers Kant's categorical imperative, "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law," then also considers how they'd feel if they were go to visit a doctor who had cheated or is cheating, one certainly must draw the conclusion that cheating is indeed immoral and undesirable.

So basically "do unto others" but phrased needlessly complexly?

More like: “act like you’d like everyone to act”

Meaning, don’t be a cheater unless you want to live in a society of cheaters. Slightly different meaning from “do unto others” which is about interpersonal reciprocity.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#238

Post by [deleted] »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #207
scarface74 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the same era where Jobs cheated Woz out of his fair compensation and took credit for the Breakout game?

And then Bill Gates ripped off Xerox and beat Apple to the punch on desktop GUIs ;p https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmMqMYgswsA&t=609s

[deleted]

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#239

Post by mnky9800n »

fauxpause_ wrote: post #46
mnky9800n wrote: post #28

when i took my quantum mechanics qualifier, i studied for a month, i was honest, i worked so hard. The exam was so tough (I passed), but as I was walking out I saw a student who had all the old exam questions with solutions printed out on his "table of integrals". Sure, maybe I "learned" some quantum mechanics more than that guy. But it's a topic I have never used (I do geophysics and machine learning) so I don't thi…

Don’t do things that are not useful, enjoyable, or rewarding.

yes i think you hit the nail on the head. that is what i do now. but that took time to arrive to even though it seems so easy when you say it now.
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